oneeye Posted May 16, 2005 Posted May 16, 2005 Now, please explain to me again EXACTLY why this was allowed? No, that isn't what happens. Someone will look at the situation, review the notes (which are confidential) and if there is an error correct it. The regional listing is just where his warehouse is. His business is not regional. I don't understand why he is allowed to do this and I am not. That's what Regional is about - where the bricks and mortar are. As I said before it is permissible to have a listing in Regional and one in Business. If the site fits both - an editor will decide. That site fits both, I see evidence of a physical presence - yours, as far as I can see, does not, it is an online only business behind a PO Box. If I can find these, why can't you people find them? We have 4 million sites and very little interest in your line of business. You on the other hand are very interested in your line of business. Who better to spot possible errors and let us know. Thanks, we'll check them out.
Meta hutcheson Posted May 16, 2005 Meta Posted May 16, 2005 We're always open to suggestions for improvement. As to the first, what likely happened is that the two categories were far apart, although they should be thought of as "related". The best thing is to relate the categories. I've done that -- that resulted in a constructive act that will help surfers. (thanks!) The other two sites are of businesses with whom you do not compete, so far as I can tell. Oneeye correctly explained the second. In the third case you hae your facts wrong -- the listing was in only one of those categories (but as it happens, IMO the wrong one: I moved it and added category links, and again for that helpful suggestion I thank you.) There was also a regional listing, as is nearly always appropriate for an entity with an inherent geographic locus.
Bidon Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 As to the first, what likely happened is that the two categories were far apart, although they should be thought of as "related". The best thing is to relate the categories. I've done that -- that resulted in a constructive act that will help surfers. (thanks!). But I still see Equipnet in the same two categories. I can't see any difference from before. I still do not understand why they get two categories. The other two sites are of businesses with whom you do not compete, so far as I can tell. That is incorrect. I know them both well and compete with both. In the third case you have your facts wrong -- the listing was in only one of those categories (but as it happens, IMO the wrong one: I moved it and added category links, and again for that helpful suggestion I thank you.) . The third case was CWR Resources. I still see CWR in http://dmoz.org/Business/Food_and_Related_Products/Tools_and_Equipment/Used_and_Remanufactured/ and http://dmoz.org/Business/Industrial_Goods_and_Services/Packaging/Machinery_and_Equipment/Wholesale_and_Distribution/ Why two categories? There was also a regional listing, as is nearly always appropriate for an entity with an inherent geographic locus. The regional listing was for Frain. Frain has an office like most companies have offices and it happens to be located in a certain town but that does not mean the company has a "regional locus." Frain sells internationally. If Frain gets a regional listing then EVERYONE should get a regional listing. Everyone is located somewhere.
Bidon Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 No, that isn't what happens. Someone will look at the situation, review the notes (which are confidential) and if there is an error correct it. That's what Regional is about - where the bricks and mortar are. As I said before it is permissible to have a listing in Regional and one in Business. If the site fits both - an editor will decide. That site fits both, I see evidence of a physical presence - yours, as far as I can see, does not, it is an online only business behind a PO Box. Actually, we do own a warehouse in Hampshire where we transship and load. We pay real estate taxes in Hampshire. We employ five local people. Our street address is in there. We have 4 million sites and very little interest in your line of business. You on the other hand are very interested in your line of business. Who better to spot possible errors and let us know. Thanks, we'll check them out. Are you telling me that you do not have a program that can detect duplicates in a database? I am sure every one of you editors is more computer savvy than I am and even _I_ know how to check for dupes in a database.
Meta hutcheson Posted May 16, 2005 Meta Posted May 16, 2005 Of course we can detect duplicates. But duplicates are often desirable for a number of reasons (not yours, but ours). Some categories ought to consist almost entirely of entries that are duplicated elsewhere. "Focus" is not the same thing as "marketing area". Focus is where people go -- move their physical bodies -- to work or shop or play or worship. Focus is where marshals come to arrest people, where supplies are shipped to, stored, repackaged and shipped from. Your opinion of that concept of "focus" is not relevant: editors think some surfers will find it useful, and that's enough. If you want us to know about your warehouse, you'll have to do what the other companies do -- put it on the website. I didn't see anything on the site that indicated you had a warehouse, let alone what you might be up to inside it. (Doesn't mean it wasn't there: but if it WAS there you might want to rethink your navigation.) (The forums are really not about individual sites, they're about the ODP. So when people talk about individual sites, we give a response for the kind of site they describe -- which is often not the kind of site they really have. This may have lead to that common assumption that editors are stupid and gullible. But when we're editing, we check the website, and almost NEVER read the forum notes.)
Bidon Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 Of course we can detect duplicates. But duplicates are often desirable for a number of reasons (not yours, but ours). Some categories ought to consist almost entirely of entries that are duplicated elsewhere. But you have not explained why my competitors, Equipnet and CWR, each have two listings in related business categories. (I found another one too, http://www.machineryandequipment.com. Similar situation) I thought you (or someone) said in a previous post that this was not allowed.
Meta hutcheson Posted May 16, 2005 Meta Posted May 16, 2005 >But you have not explained why my competitors, Equipnet and CWR, each have two listings in related business categories. They got in under false pretenses. They did not mention that they were your competitors.
Bidon Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 We're always open to suggestions for improvement. OK. Explain this one to me. You have listed one of my competitors twice in the same category under different names: http://dmoz.org/Business/Food_and_Related_Products/Tools_and_Equipment/Used_and_Remanufactured/ http://www.genemco.com/ and http://www.food-processing-equipment.biz/ Two thinly disguised versions of the same company. Why don't you give one of his slots to me???? How come he gets listed twice and I can't even get listed once?
Bidon Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 >But you have not explained why my competitors, Equipnet and CWR, each have two listings in related business categories. They got in under false pretenses. They did not mention that they were your competitors. That would get them in once. But why twice?
bobrat Posted May 16, 2005 Posted May 16, 2005 http://www.genemco.com/ and http://www.food-processing-equipment.biz/Looks like they snuck both of those in - and someone needs to kick one out. Well at least he didn't get http://www.refrigeration-equipment.biz/ listed
Meta hutcheson Posted May 16, 2005 Meta Posted May 16, 2005 We don't have assigned slots. But Genemco is minus one mirror. Thanks.
Bidon Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 Looks like they snuck both of those in - and someone needs to kick one out. Well at least he didn"]www.refrigeration-equipment.biz/[/url'] listed So, how about giving me one of his slots? Kind of like in those TV shows where the cops want the suspect to rat out his buddies and he asks "What's in it for me?" I have already pointed out at least 4 mistakes (unjustifed double listings) you guys have made. Equipnetdirect.com, CWRresources.com, Machineryandequipment.com and now Genemco. (Regarding Frain, OK, he posted a picture of his warehouse on his website so that makes him "regional." If you want to play it that way, OK) So how about it? Do I get one of Genemco's slots? I wouldn't mind being in that same category where his sites are. And you certainly can't claim that my site is less "unique" than his, since you allowed him to list two sites with essentially duplicate information.
Meta pvgool Posted May 16, 2005 Meta Posted May 16, 2005 That is not the way it works. As any human we can make mistakes. And we are always very happy when people help us to find these mistakes. But that will not help them to list their own site. You will have to wait until an editor (who very probably will not have read theis thread) will review your suggestion. When this will happen? Noone knows. Can be tomorrow, can be next week, month, year, or it could even take longer. You can only do one thing in relation to a DMOZ listing and that is wait. I will not answer PM or emails send to me. If you have anything to ask please use the forum.
oneeye Posted May 16, 2005 Posted May 16, 2005 since you allowed him to list two sites We didn't allow him, he fooled an editor, or possibly took over another domain already listed. We constantly battle against such things but with over 4 million listings some will get away with it until an editor goes into the category to do some deep cleaning or someone such as yourself dobs them in. For which we are grateful but unfortunately it doesn't influence your own site review since it is highly unlikely anyone in this forum would carry out the review. As has been pointed out, there are no "slots". I understand your frustration but we are a voluntary "academic" project with no interest at all in marketing or who competes with who, not a commercial listing organisation.
Bidon Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 We didn't allow him, he fooled an editor, or possibly took over another domain already listed. We constantly battle against such things but with over 4 million listings some will get away with it until an editor goes into the category to do some deep cleaning or someone such as yourself dobs them in. For which we are grateful but unfortunately it doesn't influence your own site review since it is highly unlikely anyone in this forum would carry out the review. As has been pointed out, there are no "slots". I understand your frustration but we are a voluntary "academic" project with no interest at all in marketing or who competes with who, not a commercial listing organisation. You say you are grateful but you guys can't even contact the editor in the used machinery category and get me a review? (Actually, since Equipnetdirect is in two categories, I should be in two also, right?) You can't send somebody an email, editor to editor? I am listed in Yahoo and MSN Small Business. I don't see why I should have a problem getting into OPD. You say you are an "academic" project, but when all these used machinery dealers have two listings in business categories, which is supposed to be against the rules, it looks to me like it might not be as academically pure as you claim it is. It looks to me like there are no "rules" here. It is all arbitrary. You can do anything you want.
Bidon Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 By the way, I found another aliased phony site you guys are listing, if you are interested. Another one of my competitors. So much for your insistence on "UNIQUE CONTENT." Heh heh
Meta pvgool Posted May 16, 2005 Meta Posted May 16, 2005 Actually, since Equipnetdirect is in two categories, I should be in two also, right? Two wrongs doesn't make one right. You say you are grateful but you guys can't even contact the editor in the used machinery category and get me a review? Why should we want to do that? We will never do any person such a favor. Remarks like this could much easier trigger me to mark your site as "please wait reviewing this site for atleast 5 years". But you are lucky. We don't punish sites for the behaviour of their owners here at R-Z, how rude that behaviour might be. From http://dmoz.org/add.html Editorial Discretion Editorial Discretion Please recognize that making the ODP a useful resource requires us to exercise broad editorial discretion in determining the content and structure of the directory. That discretion extends (but is not limited) to what sites to include, where in the directory sites are placed, whether and when to include more than one link to a site, when deep linking is appropriate, and the content of the title and description of the site. In addition, a site's placement in the directory is subject to change or deletion at any time at our sole discretion. You should not rely on any aspect of a site's inclusion in the directory. Please understand that an editor's exercise of discretion may not always treat all submissions equally. You may not always agree with our choices, but we hope you recognize that we do our best to make fair and reasonable decisions. So your remark "You can do anything you want." is true. An editor only has to follow our guidelines (there is a big difference between guidelines and rules). I will not answer PM or emails send to me. If you have anything to ask please use the forum.
Meta hutcheson Posted May 16, 2005 Meta Posted May 16, 2005 >you guys can't even contact the editor in the used machinery category and get me a review? Exactly! You got it! Aside from some confusion about "the editor in the category," which is a concept that doesn't correlate to reality. We have HUNDREDS of people can edit there. I'm one of them, which is how I fixed three of the problems you found. And even if we found an editor and appointed him the daily scapegoat for these problems -- I can't tell ANY editor to do ANYTHING. That infinite power delusion is hard to get past. For non-editors, that is. For editors, when you actually get to work, it goes sort of foggy. When you realize that all you control is your own fingers and eyes, it starts to dissipate. And when you look around and see half-a-dozen groups of editors organizing and coordinating (on their own initiative) to clean up your messes (or "improve your prior work up to current standards") (yes, been there, done that, would have gotten scars on my ego if I didn't keep it in a safe place) -- then it completely vanishes.
jimnoble Posted May 16, 2005 Posted May 16, 2005 You can do anything you want.Indeed - we're volunteers. The other side of that coin is that we don't have to do things that we don't want to do. Posting here does not have any effect upon when your website will be reviewed. We merely provide status reports. No amount of cajoling or suggestions that we're incompetent or even abusive is going to get your website a faster review. It'll happen when an editor volunteers to do it and not before. It's unlikely to be anybody who's read this thread. - few editors do nowadays The conversation has become frustrating for you and for us and is achieving nothing but the consumption of resources which could be better used editing. Lets quietly allow this thread to lie fallow until you're eligible for a further status report. <added> That would be after June 14th </added>
Bidon Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 [quote=hutcheson Aside from some confusion about "the editor in the category," which is a concept that doesn't correlate to reality. We have HUNDREDS of people can edit there. I'm one of them, which is how I fixed three of the problems you found. As far a I can see, you only fixed one. equipnetdirect.com, cwrresources.com and machineryandequipment.com are still showing up under two categories, for no logical reason. And I also found another one, which I am not even going to bother telling you about. See you in a month.
jimnoble Posted May 16, 2005 Posted May 16, 2005 Suggesting that hutcheson is not telling the truth isn't helpful. Please be aware that it takes a finite time for changes to propagate around all our public facing servers.Lets quietly allow this thread to lie fallow until you're eligible for a further status report.I'm now enforcing that. You'll be able to post again after June 16th.
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