chaz7979 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Posted September 2, 2005 aspects which are left up to the editors' discretion (and note the plural on "editors") - we found that a rigid adherance to a strict set of rules does not a better directory make If that is the case then how would you explain how to edit to a new applicant? That might be a mute question, because of the fact that I doubt I will be expected, even though I live in this town I applied to. By the way. I think it is funny that a forum exists where no direct answers can be given. I really hope I am accepted as an editor so I can give mysterious round about answers to unsuspecting people. Not the trolls, the actual normal average everyday guy that is dumbfounded by the answers he/she is given
chaz7979 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Posted September 2, 2005 malicious adversaries. I know you guys deal with a lot of spam submissions. But I think you maybe think that spam is more than what it is. I bet more then half the submissions you get are just garbage from people who do not know any better, or love their own personal, yet useless site. They are not mostly malicious, just ignorant.
Meta hutcheson Posted September 2, 2005 Meta Posted September 2, 2005 The actual numbers are: approximately 5000-7000 mass-spamming submittals a day (which are certainly malicious!) about 1000-2000 submittals which are spam, (some certainly non-malicious: in specific cases it's hard to tell which are which, not that we care which), and about 1000 that are useful (some submitted for ulterior motives -- not that we know or care one way or another). The submitters in the first class have systematically studied the ODP for the purpose of causing maximum damage to it. They aren't ignorant. They aren't innocent.
Alucard Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 If that is the case then how would you explain how to edit to a new applicant? An excellent question! It's quite simple - read the guidelines and follow them as though they are rules. if you encounter something which seems to go against that, consult with a more experienced editor on the internal editor fora and get a second opinion. That might be a mute question, because of the fact that I doubt I will be expected, even though I live in this town I applied to. Most highly local Regional categories are relatively easy - and there are usually quite a few editors who can help out to give second opinions and support, if asked. By the way. I think it is funny that a forum exists where no direct answers can be given. I really hope I am accepted as an editor so I can give mysterious round about answers to unsuspecting people. Not the trolls, the actual normal average everyday guy that is dumbfounded by the answers he/she is given I'm sorry you don't feel they are direct answers, but they are. It feels like you are asking for a simple set of rules where there aren't any, and then claiming that we are avoiding the question when we can't give them to you.
chaz7979 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Posted September 2, 2005 I'm sorry you don't feel they are direct answers, but they are. It feels like you are asking for a simple set of rules where there aren't any, and then claiming that we are avoiding the question when we can't give them to you. I dont think you arew avoiding it. I am just dicovering that there is no real answer. I think you guys all cleared that up. No avoiding. The actual numbers are: approximately 5000-7000 mass-spamming submittals a day (which are certainly malicious!) about 1000-2000 submittals which are spam, (some certainly non-malicious: in specific cases it's hard to tell which are which, not that we care which) I do not understand what the difference betweent the two? Are you saying that 5-7k are people submitting more than 1 url and 1-2k are people submitting just 1? IF that is the case, then that proves my point that 1-2k are not malicious. Maybe it is not half, but its still a bunch of people that are just ignorant, and maybe looking for an answer. On my site I am use to getting submissions that are spam, and even bots that find their way around my protection. If accepted I am sure I will be able to lend a hand. Here is to hoping I will be good enough for my local city, and then good enough to move on an help in other cats Good thread guys. EDIT: or girls
Meta hutcheson Posted September 2, 2005 Meta Posted September 2, 2005 Yes, let's differentiate between these two statements, both of which I've made many times: (1) Most SUBMITTALS ARE spam. (2) Many, perhaps even most, SUBMITTERS, are NOT spammers. (3) We have to prioritize sites based on probabilities; we have to review based on individual merit. (4) Dealing with submitters is like playing Russian Roulette. Many of them are decent folk -- the vast majority of them are no worse than your typical used car salesman -- but if you deal with more than a few dozen, you WILL meet one of the axe murderers. That basically means don't contact them except in well-lighted places, with police standing by -- because you can't tell ahead of time which ones are wearing fully loaded dynamite suspenders.
chaz7979 Posted September 2, 2005 Author Posted September 2, 2005 So sad that a small few can ruin it for the rest of us on so many levels. I mean this globaly all the way down to "the MOZ"
Meta hutcheson Posted September 2, 2005 Meta Posted September 2, 2005 That's the basic concept of spam: people think they can make a life for themselves out of stealing small slivers of lives from millions of other people. And yeah, each one doesn't hit _me_ that hard -- but all together, they depress the world economy by tens of billions (or hundreds of billions) of dollars a year. And for what? The actual income they take away from this economic vandalization is a tiny fraction of a percent of that!
jimnoble Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 So sad that a small few can ruin it for the rest of us on so many levels.Much like real life
chaz7979 Posted September 3, 2005 Author Posted September 3, 2005 And now for the results of my editor application.....drumrolls..... "Thank you for your interest in becoming an Open Directory Project editor. After careful review, we have decided not to approve your application at this time." Gives up.
chaz7979 Posted January 11, 2006 Author Posted January 11, 2006 I had a site that offered free hosting via subdomain accounts through communityarchitect.com My site along with some personal sites that were created by free hosting users were wiped out of 'the MOZ' a couple of weeks back. I can see a listing being removed, but how could 6 or 7 deep links all be wiped out when they were in very different sections? That same week the site was penalized by google becuse free hosting users had created hundreds of spammy redirects, this was a problem with communityarchitect.com I have since removed the free webhosting that I offered, which is a shame for people who genuinely enjoyed the free service. I have also applied for a reinclusion request for google. My question is does DMOZ have a reinclusion request process? Also, did google and the moz communicate on the penalty? Or was this the most bizarre coinsidence ever? I had been in google and listed in the MOZ for over 3 years, then I lose listings in both within days of each other? EDIT: Rest assured I will not mention my webiste URL, I am not sniffing around to find out what happened to my site specifically. I just would like some light to be shed on what may have caused something like this to happen to someone.
Meta shadow575 Posted January 11, 2006 Meta Posted January 11, 2006 Speaking in general-Haven't looked at any urls or editor actions, deeplinks are commonly unreviewed as they usually are not listable. That being said, there are exceptions. There also many other reasons that sites are unreviewed. My question is does DMOZ have a reinclusion request process? There is no automatic relisting if that is what you mean. You can always resuggest the sites for review, and they will be added to the review pool for an editor to look at eventually. It is unlikely that the sites were deleted outright unless they were violating the guidelines in someway. More likely they were moved to unreviewed pending re-evaluation. Also, did google and the moz communicate on the penalty? Or was this the most bizarre coinsidence ever? I had been in google and listed in the MOZ for over 3 years, then I lose listings in both within days of each other? No, Google has nothing to do with dmoz other than using its data and dmoz doesn't impose penalties nor do they communicate with Google or any other third party to make directory listing decisions. Hope that helps to clarify. Shadow *The opinions I offer are my own and may not represent the opinions of Curlie.org or other editors.* It can take anywhere from two hours to several years for a site review to take place. I do not respond to private messages requesting site status checks. _______________________________________________ https://shadow575.wordpress.com/
chaz7979 Posted January 11, 2006 Author Posted January 11, 2006 No no no they were not pending review. The were removed. Deep links and all. My domain had 5-7 links in DMOZ and they were all removed. It was like someone went and searched for the url and wiped it off the face of DMOZ. The links were in such different places in the directory theyu had to have been searched for. Since I offered free web hosting accounts there were links in places like dog kennels, skateboarding, colors, webmasters. The deep links were all over the place. For them all to be gone on the same day would suggest that someone hunted down the url and removed all instances of it. Could this be editor abuse?
jeanmanco Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 There are several situations which could cause this result. One would be that a domain had server trouble at the time our link checker came around and so all its listings were automatically removed to unreviewed. If they are placed in unreviewed, they will not be visible on the public side. From your perspective they are gone. From our perspective they are pending re-evaluation. Another possibility is that the value of the listings has been reconsidered. That process is quite often undertaken by senior editors who can edit throughout the directory. It can happen if a site changes content or if someone notices that the site no longer meets our guidelines (which have become more stringent over the years.)
chaz7979 Posted January 11, 2006 Author Posted January 11, 2006 Thanks for the response. I would say it is most likely the first of the two scenarios except for the fact that the website is hosted on a dedicated box that I own and run except for the ocassional reboot the server is never down. A reboot lasts maybe 30 seconds. That would be a million to 1 shot. If it is the later I would understand it if it was my main url. But it was other peoples sub domain websites. That would be like removing goecities.com from dmoz and then removing every single goecity deep link....that does not seem likely to me.
Meta hutcheson Posted January 11, 2006 Meta Posted January 11, 2006 I don't know what happened -- as has been mentioned, I don't know the exact URL. But communityarchitect.com is still listed, so whatever it was, it wasn't just a matter of removing all links to the domain (or, alternatively, of the server blocking robozilla and robozilla getting even.)
motsa Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Since he's already said he wasn't going to mention his URL, it's safe to assume he wasn't talking about communityarchitect.com when he said his site was removed. communityarchitect.com is a service provider that chaz7979 was making use of.
chaz7979 Posted January 11, 2006 Author Posted January 11, 2006 communityarchitect.com was not the site but the company that allows you to offer free sub domain hosting. They dont have anything to do with anything except that they let the free sub domain hosting get out of hand. Which is what got my site penalized. Knowing that could you shine some more light maybe? EDIT: wow you are fast
motsa Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 Sorry, no, we can't. You've already been given a number of reasons why something like that might happen. Anything more would be essentially giving you a status check.
chaz7979 Posted January 11, 2006 Author Posted January 11, 2006 I am almost 100% sure that the reasons mentioned are not feasible. 1.My server does not go down. 2.Removing a listing because it no longer is worthy would make sense except there were 5-6 deep links that were not even mine, and they were not related. Also I never submitted my main url or the 1 deep link to my domain specifically it was added by editors. That is why I think that this may have been malicious. Not only that but I think they notified google as well. Maybe its a conspiracy theory but to lose 2 such listings within hours of each other seems so highly unlikely.
Meta hutcheson Posted January 11, 2006 Meta Posted January 11, 2006 Chaz, Google doesn't listen to us. (They don't have to, they're the search engine.) Google doesn't react that quickly to spam reports anyway. Their approach is always to consider what algorithmic changes might be made to solve the general problem, not to whack any particular site for technical reasons.
motsa Posted January 11, 2006 Posted January 11, 2006 1.My server does not go down.You don't think that that necessarily translates into your site having been available 24/7, do you? There are so many other things that can affect the availability of a site on the Internet besides server uptime.
chaz7979 Posted January 11, 2006 Author Posted January 11, 2006 Chaz, Google doesn't listen to us. (They don't have to, they're the search engine.) Google doesn't react that quickly to spam reports anyway. Their approach is always to consider what algorithmic changes might be made to solve the general problem, not to whack any particular site for technical reasons. Do you think that someone from google might be an editor or work with an editor or maybe even just be friends with an editor? There is a form to report a url specifically on google. Sites can be whacked for a technical reason. I have reported many bad results in google to see them disapper within the week. I cant resist when I see a site url like http://shoes-mens.tennis-shoes.com/mens/tennis/shoes/mens-tennis-shoes.html I always report it and bookmark it. Did you ban Robozilla (our link checker)? I dont ban anyone Every bot, crawler, SE, and link checker has access to my site. No sure if that is a good thing or not, I have never really looked into it. EDIT: look at those spelling mistakes, now we know why I did not get accepted when I applied to edit my own home town!
Meta hutcheson Posted January 12, 2006 Meta Posted January 12, 2006 Chaz, chaz.... we have an anonymous editor, who for reasons unspecified is so ticked off at you personally that he'll risk the chance of losing editor rights just to remove a few pizzley links to your site from THIS site ... AND who just happens to have a friend at Google who is willing to risk getting fired from HIS job just to help out a friend's grudge? That may not be the most improbable ODP conspiracy theory I've heard, but it is a good effort. I'm not big on conspiracy theories. If you must know, I'm too busy taking over the Brazilian tourist industry. (Or, at least, so I have been told.)
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