Editors with Conflict of Interest??

[TTT]

It has been approx 4-5 years we have tried to get 1 or 2 of our sites listed in the directory and thus far to no avail. However it appears as tho our competition is included in the directory almost instantly. Now I know what you are all thinking and thats not the case I / we ( our corporation ) is not bitter just disappointed.

 

We live in a tourist area and we have many businesses with the area and there of course is competition, which is what business is all about. However when someone manipulates an organization such as DMOZ for personal gain I have to say something.

 

Over the course of the last 4 - 5 years we have submitted 1 website twice in that time period and 1 other site twice and still nothing, So we tested a couple other websites recently meaning in the last year and guess what still no listing. Now some of you may say well theres so many to go thru for an editor ect ect. But during our test period ( This last year) several other sites were listed in the directory you may also think nothing of this.... But heres where it gets interesting and these are our conclusions only.

 

originally 4 - 5 years ago there was only a few websites listed in the destination specific area i am talking about and in the last years there has been some added there total 144 at this time.

 

87% of the sites that have been listed over this time frame are customers of a DMOZ listed site that was in the original listings...

 

our business was also approached many years ago to advertise on this website and we did not think at the time it was feasible and our business has grown to a point where we now have multiple websites for our various businesses.

 

I have contacted some area business owners that also have a web presence and they too were asked to advertise with this old DMOZ listed site and they too have refused and none of thier websites have been included within the directory.

 

It seems odd to me that a website that has been listed within the directory for years and has a number of advertisers on his site all appear in the DMOZ directory, And those that do not deal with this particular website are banished forever. Can it be that the Editor of this destination is also the same person that owns and operates the old DMOZ listed site I mentioned earlier?

 

at this point you may say, did you submit to the right area / category / ect

 

we can substantiate all our answers with a yes... We all live and work in the same tourist area and run the same businesses.

[crowbar]

Very interesting. I'm not a meta editor, but all of us despise crooked editors, , and love to see them get caught and dealt with, and I'm sure this one will be looked at very closely. (Once they are reported using the abuse form)

 

On the other hand, perhaps your sites were spam and they were just deleted, I do enjoy doing that also.

[motsa]

Ordinarily, we would ask you to use our public abuse reporting system to report your concerns. But, since that is currently not available, you can either PM me the details or use my ODP feedback link to send me the details. Either way, someone will investigate the issue though I can't guarantee when that will be.

[TTT]

Motsa, Thank you for your offer. Now that I have taken the time to become a member of this community I am going to do some poking around.

 

I will provide all details and relevant information regarding this in my PM. but this still makes me wonder if it's not out in the open how would someone such as myself know if there was a resolution or investigation.?

[gimmster]

When the public abuse system is working, your report is assigned a number, which you can use to check the status of the report (recieved or closed), There is no public or private advice of the results of that abuse report other than what can be seen by any changes made to the category though.

 

The *normal* system puts the report in a pool that is logged and available to all meta/admin editors (they are the only ones with access) to investigate ie the group of meta level editors cross check each other.

[TTT]

#2866

I've had a go at some, some were already done, I think I got them, but it's hard working from search results, please use the category path in future reports.

 

As for the dual listings in both Niagra categories - thats one of the exceptional cases allowed to editors. Guidelines are at http://editors.dmoz.org/guidelines/regional/listing.html#Choosing , but what it boils down to is that it would not serve the users to have a single listing at the lowest category that covered both locations (North America level), so they were listed in both Locations.

 

taken from: http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5453&page=192

 

Correct me if im wrong here but isnt this what I had originally assumed as the reasoning why many sites including ours never get listed in the DMOZ directory.... An editor with a monopoly on inclusions....

 

I did read many years ago about editors standards and practices and I believe it stated that an editor could NOT have a website in any category they owned websites in...

 

If the above is infact true the editor in questions is using the DMOZ directory for extorsion.

[crowbar]

No editor owns a category. When their name is listed as the editor, it just means they have been granted permissions to edit there. Many, many other editors, with higher/wider editing permissions are also able to edit there, and do.

 

For instance, as a US level editor, I have editing permissions in Niagara Falls on the US side, as well as every other locality within the US.

 

An editor is allowed to add a personal site in the category he edits in, as long as he treats it impartially, just as any other site is treated. If he shows favoritism, then that could be considered editor abuse and be grounds for dismissal. For instance, if he cooled his own site, or did nothing but add sites that he's afiliated with, or deleted competitors sites for no legitimate reason, it would be considered abuse.

 

Editors are also required to list all of their afiliations.

[pvgool]

I did read many years ago about editors standards and practices and I believe it stated that an editor could NOT have a website in any category they owned websites in...

This is and never has been true. An editor is allowed to list his own site and an editor is allowed to "work" in a category in which his site (or any other site he is affiliated with) is listed. He is not allowed to give any favor to his site or disfavor sites which aren't his.

 

If you send the PM to motsa she will investigate.

[TTT]

So basically from the above statements everything we have done all the submissions over the years were going to someone who controls the specific categories... And has decided to monopolize these categories for their own profit...

 

Gimme a break no wonder we have never been included in the directory and only sites affiliated with the editor are chosen.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong but DMOZ does work to feed search engines such as google, yahoo ect and if there is an editor that is abusing his authority within DMOZ and is monopolizing his site over others far more optimized and useful for the end user for profit that leads me to believe that something smells of a scam.

 

Please forgive me if i sound angry but it has been 5 years of this and to now find out that the person behind the favortism is an editor of these categories leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

 

the word impartial was used above and that is the farthest thing from the truth in this case. The owner/editor has manipulated DMOZ results which in turn feed google results and yahoo, for his own financial gain.

 

a simple search in all above mentioned search engines for the term niagara falls leaves only one result in every case, and to make matters even worse the editor in question only allows sites into DMOZ directory that is affiliated ( paying him to advertise on his site) is deplorable and an abuse of this system IMHO

 

so much for the words used earlier that travel and tourism categories are SPAM related, maybe we should just refer to them as a way for a crooked editor to make alot of money.

 

so to sum it all up we never had a chance and we should never apply for any other site because the editor will see it as competition and it will never make it past his inbox-- Or should I say straight to his delete box.

 

now at least we know who the editor is.... Gord

 

In addition to the instances noted elsewhere in these guidelines, we may remove editors or revoke their editing privileges (in full or in part) at our sole discretion, for any reason. Such reasons may include, but are not limited to, the following:

 

Failure to comply with the editorial guidelines

Inability to function well within the Open Directory community

Poor editing

Uncivil behavior toward submitters, other editors, or ODP Staff

Violation of ODP forum and email privacy

Self-promotion (such as site cooling, and title or description manipulation, and adding/promoting only one's own sites)

Discriminating against or tampering with competitors' listings for the purpose of harming a competitor

Spamming the directory

Editor accounts may be removed by meta editors only after careful discussion, evaluation and consensus agreement. ODP staff review all account removal decisions made by the meta editors. Meta editors and ODP staff may revoke an editor's privilege to edit one or more categories or otherwise limit an editor's editorial privileges at their discretion. They may also remove an editor from the ODP entirely. Editors may submit feedback about any such decisions to

 

This editor has gotten away with almost all of the above.

[crowbar]

So basically from the above statements everything we have done all the submissions over the years were going to someone who controls the specific categories... And has decided to monopolize these categories for their own profit...

 

Gimme a break no wonder we have never been included in the directory and only sites affiliated with the editor are chosen.

 

That would be the wrong assumption, that hasn't been proven that I know of, but, if it is true, that editor won't be around long, and did you bring up this suspicion 5 years ago, and fill out an abuse form?

 

Please correct me if I am wrong but DMOZ does work to feed search engines such as google, yahoo ect and if there is an editor that is abusing his authority within DMOZ and is monopolizing his site over others far more optimized and useful for the end user for profit that leads me to believe that something smells of a scam.

 

OK, you're wrong. We do not work to feed search engines, our only interest is in the web surfer, not search engines, other directories, SEOs, or webmasters, be they professionals or mom & pops. The public, including all of those above are allowed the privledge of making site suggestions or freely using our data, but, we are in no way working for their benefit, only for the benefit of web surfers.

 

Please forgive me if i sound angry but it has been 5 years of this and to now find out that the person behind the favortism is an editor of these categories leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. a simple search in all above mentioned search engines for the term niagara falls leaves only one result in every case, and to make matters even worse the editor in question only allows sites into DMOZ directory that is affiliated ( paying him to advertise on his site) is deplorable and an abuse of this system IMHO

 

so much for the words used earlier that travel and tourism categories are SPAM related, maybe we should just refer to them as a way for a crooked editor to make alot of money.

 

As I said, you don't know that and neither do we, without an investigation. I think you assume way too much at this point, in an effort to come up with a reason why your particular site hasn't been listed.

 

so to sum it all up we never had a chance and we should never apply for any other site

 

Excellent suggestion. No site is guaranteed a listing, no site has a right to be listed, and we are not all inclusive. You've submitted your site, and made some accusations that I'm sure will be looked into and, if neccessary, dealt with. That's all you can do, so, concentrate your efforts elsewhere, .

[motsa]

So basically from the above statements everything we have done all the submissions over the years were going to someone who controls the specific categories... And has decided to monopolize these categories for their own profit...

No one can monopolize a category because no one owns a category. More than 200 people can edit in any given category at any given time. Pretty hard to monopolize something given that.

 

Please forgive me if i sound angry but it has been 5 years of this and to now find out that the person behind the favortism is an editor of these categories leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

That is all pure speculation on your part. Speculation is pointless. You've passed on your concerns. For you to keep continually posting about them here as well is not helping matters. If there's been abuse, it will be dealt with. And, as I wrote in my PM to you, your hotel site is already listed and has been for some time but under a different URL. So your complaints that you are being kept out of the category are clearly not accurate.

[crowbar]

The lamb turns into one of the wolves before our very eyes.

[pvgool]

Whow, amasing that some people are able to make conclusions that totaly contradict what has been told to them.

[crowbar]

now at least we know who the editor is.... Gord

 

Interesting, we have no such named editor, and never have.

[chaz7979]

"r" is near "d" maybe it was just suppose to read ...God

 

The lamb turns into one of the wolves before our very eyes.

 

If that is true this guy just made it that much harder to take anyone with a legit beef seriously. That burns me up.

[crowbar]

Yes, it becomes a matter of who can you really trust. Fortunately, I have an answer, our metas, .

[luvtoban]

editor abuse is rife. Even if not overt then by personal bias. Which is how we get nonsense sites like this listed:

http://dmoz.org/Regional/Europe/Ireland/Dublin/Localities/Ballsbridge/Travel_and_Tourism/

 

http://www.travelwand.com/

[crowbar]

Well, from what I can see, there are no resident editors any place near that particular category, so, I don't see how there can be any editor bias or abuse in it.

 

The editors who can edit there, edit across thousands of categories. Sounds more likely that the bias is on the accusers side. Maybe your site suggestion hasn't been listed yet? or, if it is, you don't want any competition?

[gimmster]

Your opinion of the site is not relevant, it was correctly listed by place of business (which has since changed and no one *including you* bothered to tell us) http://web.archive.org/web/20040819045656/http://www.travelwand.com/contact.html

[Sfghesquiere]

It has been approx 4-5 years we have tried to get 1 or 2 of our sites listed in the directory and thus far to no avail. However it appears as tho our competition is included in the directory almost instantly. Now I know what you are all thinking and thats not the case I / we ( our corporation ) is not bitter just disappointed.

 

We live in a tourist area and we have many businesses with the area and there of course is competition, which is what business is all about. However when someone manipulates an organization such as DMOZ for personal gain I have to say something.

 

Over the course of the last 4 - 5 years we have submitted 1 website twice in that time period and 1 other site twice and still nothing, So we tested a couple other websites recently meaning in the last year and guess what still no listing. Now some of you may say well theres so many to go thru for an editor ect ect. But during our test period ( This last year) several other sites were listed in the directory you may also think nothing of this.... But heres where it gets interesting and these are our conclusions only.

 

originally 4 - 5 years ago there was only a few websites listed in the destination specific area i am talking about and in the last years there has been some added there total 144 at this time.

 

87% of the sites that have been listed over this time frame are customers of a DMOZ listed site that was in the original listings...

 

our business was also approached many years ago to advertise on this website and we did not think at the time it was feasible and our business has grown to a point where we now have multiple websites for our various businesses.

 

I have contacted some area business owners that also have a web presence and they too were asked to advertise with this old DMOZ listed site and they too have refused and none of thier websites have been included within the directory.

 

It seems odd to me that a website that has been listed within the directory for years and has a number of advertisers on his site all appear in the DMOZ directory, And those that do not deal with this particular website are banished forever. Can it be that the Editor of this destination is also the same person that owns and operates the old DMOZ listed site I mentioned earlier?

 

at this point you may say, did you submit to the right area / category / ect

 

we can substantiate all our answers with a yes... We all live and work in the same tourist area and run the same businesses.

To whom it may concern,

 

 

 

I am writing to you because I can't seem to be able to access the your report-abuse/spam page for some time now. I hope you can help me on a matter, which I find quite upsetting.

 

 

 

I refer to the category (Regional/.../Localities/...) based on my search ().

 

 

 

I have a web site (...) that is categorised under the ... section of this region. I am very happy with this listing as it perfectly reflects my sites content. I have had this site up and running for over six years now and it is being continuously updated.

 

 

 

I would like to know why it has never been indexed under the search results based on the keyword "<locality name>". You can see that 87 other sites come up within this search, some of which do not reflect the same relevant content as my own. Some sites appearing within these search results have been newly created and lack much of the relevant information for the ... region, which can be found within (...).. Other web sites that have nothing to do with the ... region other than they simply refer to the area as a place to visit in one line of text get credited with a high ranking within the same search result.

 

 

 

I have tried many times to update the Title and Description information of my site as I don't think it reflects the nature of my site. The current Title and Description was not submitted by me many years ago when I submitted my link to the Open Directory Project. Each time over the past four years I try to update the information nothing happens. I have waited as long a year sometimes allowing an editor plenty of time to address it.

 

 

 

I can't become an editor for this section and I cant seem to get my information updated in the hope it would allow me to become more prominent within the search results for "..." and or the "..."

 

 

 

I am very worried and upset by this as I don't know if its something I've done wrong. I can't understand because my site offers a very large amount of information to visitors to this region of Ireland in matters related to ..... I don't know why this is happening and I cant even say if an editor is abusing my listing as I don't know what powers and editor has or has not.

 

 

 

Can you please help me and let me know why something like this is happing to me. I have spent a lot of my time trying to create a good honest web site for the ... area and cant come to terms with what's happening. If its something I have done wrong myself please let me know so I can strive to rectify the error immediately.

 

 

 

I am greatly looking forward to your response in the hope you can help me.

 

<details removed>

[gimmster]

Ok, first the link drops are not appropriate, and neither would this be a place for an abuse report. Yes, we know the abuse report mechanism is still not available, but if you *must* place a report, please use private message to a meta, rather than a public posting.

 

That aside. this is not abuse, it is a fundamental misunderstanding on your part of how DMOZ works.

 

Sites are categorised (in the Regional branch), primarily by their physical location.

 

For our purposes its based on someone using the directory as a directory - ie stepping down to smaller geographical divisions.

Since they know that when they get to Dingle all sites listed there are about the place called Dingle, in County Kerry, in Ireland from the path name Regional/Europe/Ireland/Kerry/Localities/Dingle/ there is no need to add that information again to the Title or Description.

 

Sometimes it is included in the Title because it's the proper name of the site/business ( guidelines at http://dmoz.org/guidelines/describing.html#titles ), and sometimes it's included in a description where it is *required* to make the description make sense (ie not added gratuitously to add a keyword for a non directory user).

I would like to know why it has never been indexed under the search results based on the keyword "Dingle".

DMOZ search is not intended to be used to find sites, but rather to find categories. Some sites are also shown where the word happens to be used in their descriptions, but this is not the intention of the search as it currently exists. There is no ranking in DMOZ search, just what sites it finds first in the index.

I can't become an editor for this section

No one can become an editor at present because of the system failure, watch the announcement at the top of forum for when this changes.

 

I cant seem to get my information updated in the hope it would allow me to become more prominent within the search results

Sounds like you are trying to keyword stuff a description - thats never a valid reason for accepting an update. Generally the update feature is there to allow you to advise us of errors, information that has been added or deleted from the site, changes in location, changes in url. It is not there for changing a description that is valid to one that uses promotional, first person, or keyword laden phrases agaist our guidelines http://dmoz.org/guidelines/describing.html#descriptions .

[crowbar]

Good post, gimmster, . I agree.

[hutcheson]

>I cant seem to get my information updated in the hope it would allow me to become more prominent within the search results for "..." and or the "..."

 

In fact, editors simply cannot control the order of search results. Thus, no abuse is involved (except, of course, for your own attempt to abusively manipulate the search results for ulterior motives.)

[Sfghesquiere]

Gimmster,

Thank you very much for your reply. I am sorry for dropping names in my initial post and for using it as an area to discuss this topic. I now understand how this forum works and I will use it properly from now on.

 

Your post was very helpful and I have taken all your points on board. I will revisit the guidelines and make all the proper changes. Once again I would like to thank you.

[jonscomputers]

Can't Get Listed Same Problem Here

 

I have the same problem getting my site listed. I have reported it for the past 3 years with no results. I have submitted my site every 3 to 6 months for the past 3 years but someone (I believe is the editor for my category) is refusing to list my site. I have had some minor success with submitting to other categories with other sites but my main site never gets listed. Originally I applied to be an editor and was also turned down I believe by the same person ie Editor. It makes things really bad when an editor has a conflict of interest and only allows his own site to be listed.