Update on my suggested site

[malcolmboston]

Id like to know how i go about finding out whether or not my site has even been looked at / rejected etc yet?

 

Really you should have some auto-responders in place for this as all it does is add to the confusion and frustration

 

i believe i added my site between 6 and 9 months ago, i noticed that im not supposed to list my sites URL here so im asking a moderator, how can i find out whats happening with my site?

[malcolmboston]

Just read this:

http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=188385

 

I feel this is absolutely ridiculous. How is this a 'Open Directory' project when its so closed its unfunny, ive just signed up to post this thread after waiting 6 - 9 months for acceptance into my chosen category. Ive been looking through that category and so many of them sites are so bad how they were ever accepted is beyond me.

 

So let me put this to who ever it concerns, do you feel that 6 - 9 months is an acceptable timeframe to be reviewed in such a popular category as mine.

 

Ive also read numerous threads regarding editors being defensive because they do there work for free, well let me say this, it does not appear that much is being done from a visitor POV, dont become an editor if you can't be arsed to review the site. This service is so unprofessional, no communication, no feedback, no assistance. An absolute joke.

[informator]

This service is so unprofessional, no communication, no feedback, no assistance.

ODP is not a service to webmasters, hence we do not communicate with them.

 

 

how can i find out whats happening with my site?

You can´t, unless you find it listed in the directory.

 

 

How is this a 'Open Directory' project...

Our data is free for everyone to download and use.

 

 

Best regards,

[motsa]

So let me put this to who ever it concerns, do you feel that 6 - 9 months is an acceptable timeframe to be reviewed in such a popular category as mine.

It's not about acceptable vs unacceptable. It's about what's realistic, and what is realistic is that a volunteer-drive project that does not force its editors to edit in specific categories but rather let's them pick where they want to edit is always going to have long review times in categories where there are no continually and heavily active editors.

 

And, be honest, "popular category" is a subjective thing. What you might consider a popular topic, I might not and vice versa. Almost every site owner is convinced, understandably so, that their niche is a popular and/or important topic, but that isn't an objective viewpoint.

 

dont become an editor if you can't be arsed to review the site.

This is a concept I've never understood. Since not-so-active editors aren't taking up space and preventing other editors from editing any given category or preventing anyone from becoming an editor in any given category, then how does making the not-so-active editors quit (or removing them) result in a net benefit for anyone? So, you go from having someone making an edit every now and then in a category to having no one making any edits at all in the category. How is that better?

 

This service is so unprofessional, no communication, no feedback, no assistance.

We aren't providing a service to web site owners. We provide you with the ability to suggest your site to us but that is not the same as providing a service to you.

[malcolmboston]

ok so let me highlight 2 points i made earlier

 

1) This service is so unprofessional, no communication, no feedback, no assistance.

 

This could easily be fixed with pre-built template emails to inform the user what is happening, the fact that this feature is missing / not used is unprofessional, simple as that in my opinion.

 

2) And, be honest, "popular category" is a subjective thing.

I think everyone would agree that mens fasgion is highly likely to be a popular category, which brings me to one of the biggest holes in ODP's design...

 

How do i know that 'my' category's editor does not have alternative motives for not listing my site? this editor could be a competitor and therefore would oviously not want to jeopardise his business / traffic by listing us.

 

Like i said before, Alot of the sites ive looked at in that category are poor and do not really, from what ive read regarding quality, content etc, conform to the acceptance guidelines of ODP, however i think you will find that my site is quite a unique online retailer selling unique clothing labels many of which are high-end fashion, we come top of google for pretty much every brand name that we stock, if google deems us quality content and ranks us accordingly, assuming dmoz has refused me (how the hell am i supposed to know that?) how can dmoz not list me when basically the only good reason for ODP being around is because google uses them.

 

3) Let not beat about the bush here, nobody uses directory services, everyone uses google / yahoo / msn really with google taking a massive majority share, the only reason for the existance of ODP and the reason why it has lasted so long is because of the 'supposed' (which i actually deem true) importance google places on sites ranked on ODP (PR anyone?).

 

Therefore i can absolutely guarantee a hell of alot of your submissions are from webmasters (which im not one of, im a web programmer) promoting there site, if this element was'nt in your site i think you would find that your submissions would dramatically decrease, therefore saying that this is a service not for you does not really apply because without webmasters ODP would be nowhere near as big, if not dead as it is now.

 

ps. I would be interested to know if any non-admin agree's / disagree's with me on this and put your $0.02 into the argument

[crowbar]

Just because I've volunteered to be an editor in the ODP as a community service to web surfers (not webmasters), it doesn't mean that you have any right to dictate how much of my free time I should spend doing it, or which of the many jobs that are available I should do, , or where I should edit, .

 

How is this a 'Open Directory' project

 

It's open to site suggestions, and it's open for anyone who would like to use the data we create, but no, it's not open to the 600 lb gorilla coming in and tearing up the garden or demanding rights that we have never provided.

 

I understand your frustration, but we are not what you assume we are, and you should really educate yourself a little. Whether a site suggestion gets used or not, is at our total discretion.

 

Please don't assume that explaining what we are and what we do is being defensive, because we have nothing to be defensive about, we merely try to correct false assumptions.

 

Let not beat about the bush here

 

OK, our goal isn't to please you or to take into any consideration whatsoever your needs or desires. Our goal is to be of service to web surfers looking for specific information.

[motsa]

I think everyone would agree that mens fasgion is highly likely to be a popular category, which brings me to one of the biggest holes in ODP's design...

I don't think everyone would agree to that, no. Again, it's subjective. Just about every category is popular with some subset of the human population. Men's fashion doesn't personally interest me in the slightest but I don't doubt that it's of interest to some people.

 

How do i know that 'my' category's editor does not have alternative motives for not listing my site? this editor could be a competitor and therefore would oviously not want to jeopardise his business / traffic by listing us.

If you have reason to believe there's been abuse other than "you haven't listed my site yet so the editor must be a competitor", then you are welcome to file an abuse report.

 

Like i said before, Alot of the sites ive looked at in that category are poor and do not really, from what ive read regarding quality, content etc, conform to the acceptance guidelines of ODP

That's entirely possible. Sites change content and focus and new editors sometimes make mistakes. Unfortunately, if no editor takes an interest in any given category at any given moment, then it has to wait until someone does. We have a thread in the Quality Control Feedback forum here for non-editors to point out bad listings to us, if you feel like doing that.

 

if this element was'nt in your site i think you would find that your submissions would dramatically decrease, therefore saying that this is a service not for you does not really apply because without webmasters ODP would be nowhere near as big, if not dead as it is now.

That's another concept I've never quite understood. Why would the directory be any smaller if we didn't give site owners or webmasters (or anyone else for that matter) the ability to suggest their sites to us? I mean, it's not like we don't have thousands of other means of locating sites (brochures, articles, TV, traditional advertising, word-of-mouth, etc., not to mention search engines and links lists). Sites wouldn't have been mysteriously hidden from us if you weren't able to suggest your sites to us. Many listed sites have never been suggested to us before but were found by editors through other means. I just created a whole new category the other day with sites that had never been suggested.

[chaos127]

1) This service is so unprofessional, no communication, no feedback, no assistance.

 

This could easily be fixed with pre-built template emails to inform the user what is happening, the fact that this feature is missing / not used is unprofessional, simple as that in my opinion.

 

As others have said, we're not trying to provide a site listing service to webmasters, so this is not something that would directly help advance our aims. It is something that could be done, but it would take effort and technical resources that we'd rather see being applied to other things. If you try searching the forums, you'll find many posts explaining in more detail why this is unlikely to happen any time soon.

 

We accept suggestions from the public, since those suggestions can help up grow the directory for the benefit of surfers. We do aim to look at all the suggestions, but since we only have a finite number of volunteers and get a large volume of suggestions, we can't offer any sort of time scale for reviewing those sites.

 

How do i know that 'my' category's editor does not have alternative motives for not listing my site? this editor could be a competitor and therefore would oviously not want to jeopardise his business / traffic by listing us.

Short answer is that you don't. However, such actions are not tolerated within the ODP community, and editors whowing preference for their own sites, or unfair behaviour towards sites of competitors will find their editor accounts are removed. For more details see: http://dmoz.org/guidelines/accounts.html and http://dmoz.org/guidelines/conflict.html

 

In addition, it's not a case of having a single editor for a category. Each editor has "permission" to edit in a set of categories. If an editor is listed at the bottom of a category page, they can edit there an in all sub-categories. There are also 200+ "editall" editors who can edit anywhere in the directory. Thus there is never just one editor for any category, and no editor has control over any listings.

 

nobody uses directory services, everyone uses google / yahoo / msn really

I agree that not many people use directories such as the ODP directly, though some certainly do (so saying 'nobody' is stretching things a bit). However, if our listings help search engines rank sites, this in turn helps surfers fund them, which is in line with our general objectives.

 

because of the 'supposed' (which i actually deem true) importance google places on sites ranked on ODP (PR anyone?).

As far as I know, there is no special treatment in the Google algorithms for sites listed in the ODP. And if you look at the PR of individual category pages, by the time you get more than a few levels down, it's not particularly high at all.

[Eric-the-Bun]

think everyone would agree that mens fasgion is highly likely to be a popular category

Nope

 

Essentially if a category has not been updated in a while, then it means that the topic is not interesting enough to attract an editor willing to give up their time to maintain it. A popular category is one where editors want to edit in. Editors start off by applying to edit in a subject that they have an interest in. Now a lot more people are going to be interested in their favourite band, filmstar, or tv show than in on-line shopping for men's fashion. In fact Regional (local) has over a million sites listed, Arts has 280,000+, Society 260,000+, and Shopping is way back after several other areas with 108,000+ listings.

 

dont become an editor if you can't be arsed to review the site

Well it appears that no one has for the category you are interested in

 

Let not beat about the bush here, nobody uses directory services, everyone uses google / yahoo / msn really with google taking a massive majority share, the only reason for the existance of ODP and the reason why it has lasted so long is because of the 'supposed' (which i actually deem true) importance google places on sites ranked on ODP (PR anyone?).

For Polish Folk Dancing, the category is regarded as a resource, even groups without websites trying to get listed. Look in the ODP for Polish Folk Dancing and you get a list of clubs and organisation, search on an engine and half the time you get ebay offering to sell you some The same goes for many topics.

 

without webmasters ODP would be nowhere near as big

In fact we would be bigger as people who are only webmasters are responsible for most of the sites we do not want. We could then devote more time to all the people out there who do things, such as clubs, plumbers, manufacturers, hobbyists etc for whom their website is a small part of their activities. These are the sites with real value.

 

regards

 

PS my status is that of a basic editor.

[Guest traveler.com.br]

Suggestions

 

Dear informator, crowbar

 

I have just joined this forum to be able to participate in this thread.

 

I think DMOZ is great and it is indeed a free service run by volunteers, so there is little obligation with webmasters as you said.

 

And I understand completely that you've been totally spammed in the past and you have the right to be skeptical and even harsh with most webmasters.

 

But some of us are producing some really cool businesses and we would love to see our work up on DMOZ! I've submitted once a long time ago and now again, first because of the incredible value that comes with a listing at DMOZ, second because we are accredited by Brazil's main government and private tourism organizations, I think we really would add value to your Brazil travel agency listings....

 

In the end, as you said, we're here to add value for the web user, not for webmasters. If you think about it, most editors are the webmaster-type, I think the relationship between editors and webmasters should be of a "same boat" attitude, not of rivalry and extreme skepticism.

 

Editors provide their most valuable time to edit this directory, while honest webmasters and companies provide their valuable work and content to fill the directory.

 

The category for which I've submitted has some sites that are just a Adobe Flash splash screen or badly designed poor taste pages. Could I post it here?

 

Thanks for your time and thank you for editing this great resource.

 

Sincerely,

Jose Fonseca

[smartwater]

As far as I know, there is no special treatment in the Google algorithms for sites listed in the ODP. And if you look at the PR of individual category pages, by the time you get more than a few levels down, it's not particularly high at all.

 

sorry to hijack this thread....but with regards to the above - you can only say this for sure if you have knowledge of the google algorithm itself. and whilst google may say that a link is a link....well they are god, so they can say what they please

 

also the PR of the individual category pages is not really that important. its the fact that a listing exists in an "authority" site and that is what dmoz is

 

this will tell you how important a dmoz listing is:

<url removed>

 

just a small extract....this is the key

 

A listing in DMOZ creates two significant links into a website - one from DMOZ (Google spiders DMOZ just like any other site) and one from the Google directory. Both of these usually have decent PageRank. Then add the links from the thousands of small sites that have downloaded and use the DMOZ directory, and you can see why it is usually quite beneficial for a website to be listed in DMOZ.

 

that is a lot of links from just one simple listing

 

finally....i spoke to an SEO firm on tuesday of this week. they said that they could GUARANTEE a listing of my site in DMOZ

 

i asked how

 

they replied...."we have access to dmoz editors"

[nea]

The category for which I've submitted has some sites that are just a Adobe Flash splash screen or badly designed poor taste pages. Could I post it here?

We would appreciate it very much if you did. There is a dedicated thread for quality control, here. Thank you!

[motsa]

finally....i spoke to an SEO firm on tuesday of this week. they said that they could GUARANTEE a listing of my site in DMOZ

 

i asked how

 

they replied...."we have access to dmoz editors"

Sounds like something we'd like the hear the details of in an abuse report.

[Guest traveler.com.br]

We would appreciate it very much if you did. There is a dedicated thread for quality control, here. Thank you!

 

Hello nea. Thanks for the reply.

 

Posted here:

 

http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=242486#post242486

 

Best regards.

[smartwater]

Sounds like something we'd like the hear the details of in an abuse report.

 

well the only information that i have is the seo company

 

i do not have any editor details as such. i am sure the seo company keeps that a very closely guarded secret

 

but i can tell you the name of the seo company - who have multiple listings in DMOZ. something i believe only an editor can provide

 

do you want details of the seo company sent to you as a PM?

[crowbar]

I have just joined this forum to be able to participate in this thread.

 

I think DMOZ is great and it is indeed a free service run by volunteers, so there is little obligation with webmasters as you said.

 

And I understand completely that you've been totally spammed in the past and you have the right to be skeptical and even harsh with most webmasters.

 

Welcome, traveler.com.br, thank you for joining us. We've learned to be a little skeptical, but, I hope we try not to be harsh. I think we have a tendency to respond to how we are addressed.

 

But some of us are producing some really cool businesses and we would love to see our work up on DMOZ! I've submitted once a long time ago and now again, first because of the incredible value that comes with a listing at DMOZ, second because we are accredited by Brazil's main government and private tourism organizations, I think we really would add value to your Brazil travel agency listings....

 

Our job isn't to keep good sites out, just the opposite, but many assume that because an editor hasn't gotten around to reviewing one particular site suggestion out of the possible 10,000 suggestions that might be available, that there is something wrong with the site, the editor is crooked, or the submitter has made some terrible mistake in the submitting.

 

The truth is much simpler, it just hasn't been reviewed yet.

 

In the end, as you said, we're here to add value for the web user, not for webmasters. If you think about it, most editors are the webmaster-type, I think the relationship between editors and webmasters should be of a "same boat" attitude, not of rivalry and extreme skepticism.

 

That is a very reasonable idea that I happen to agree with. Professional webmasters could be of great service to the Directory, and speed the process up considerably, if they would just understand and submit a proper, ODP compliant Title and Description for each suggestion, to the correct category, submit it once only, make sure it the type of site that we do list, that it's not a redirect or a mirror, not still under construction, that the url actually works, and there is "unique content" on that particular site for that particular category, and that there are no dead links on the site, .

 

I do agree a partnership of sorts would be beneficial to both parties, but first, the webmaster community needs to understand and believe what we've been saying, that our main goal is to serve the web surfer looking for specific information, not the providers of the information, that no site has a right or a promise from us to be listed, that we will not accept all sites (because they may not have the unique content that we're looking for).

 

Another misconception is that we judge a companies worth compared to other companies, or that we judge the site design or size. That is false, we only judge the site itself, and whether it has the unique content on it that would add value to the category, for the benefit of the web surfer.

 

I, personally, no longer have any sites of my own. I took down all three of them as being unneccessary or too time consuming, and I had the pleasure of deleting them from the Directory myself. I don't delete many legitimate sites, .

 

One was a business site, one was an Ezine for professionals of my industry (in magazine format and quite extensive), and one was a forum that was never listed in the Directory, (it didn't qualify).

[Artisands]

well the only information that i have is the seo company

 

i do not have any editor details as such. i am sure the seo company keeps that a very closely guarded secret

 

but i can tell you the name of the seo company - who have multiple listings in DMOZ. something i believe only an editor can provide

 

do you want details of the seo company sent to you as a PM?

 

Yes, please PM the information to one of the Meta editors here or via the abuse reporting system.

Thanks

[motsa]

Yes, you can PM whatever information you have. Thanks.

[smartwater]

well i am due to receive a proposal from this seo company next week

 

let me get that and let me see what it says

 

i could always send you the proposal if it includes any information concerning a listing in dmoz

[motsa]

Sounds good.

[Thunderstorm]

Just read this:

I feel this is absolutely ridiculous. How is this a 'Open Directory' project when its so closed its unfunny, ive just signed up to post this thread after waiting 6 - 9 months for acceptance into my chosen category. Ive been looking through that category and so many of them sites are so bad how they were ever accepted is beyond me.

 

Starting a thread with lengthy way of saying "you s*ck" really isn't such a great way to make your opinion heard and opt for change. It also makes it much harder for those of us who try to argue similar points in a reasonable way. No wonder everyone here is annoyed when it comes to that topic.

[crowbar]

Sometimes the frustration of feeling helpless leads people to be less polite than they would normally be, .

 

As editors, and site owners ourselves, I think we understand that people come here expecting a service that we don't provide, neither here nor in the Directory itself.

 

Nothing we say will get through to people until they change their first natural assumptions that we are a listing service devoted to being of service to site owners, webmasters, and SEOs, or being in partnership with them.

 

Much of the anger, I think, comes from us not acknowledging the importance these people have in creating the information for the Internet, and our sometimes less than successful attempts at explaining that what's good for the web surfer takes precedence over what's good for the site creators, when it comes to the Directory. Something that most of them believe should be just the opposite.