Can I submit multiple pages from my site?

[Guest freecelebpics]

I just had my main page added to the ODP for a site that is a directory of celebrity sites. Can I submit the pages for individual celebrities. For example one page is Beyonce Knowles and it lists sites that are dedicated to her. I feel that a lot of surfers would be looking for a list of sites for individual celebrities and would miss out on the service I am providing if only the main page is listed. However I do not want to be accused of spamming so that is why I am asking before submitting the pages. Thanks in advance.

[John_Caius]

From your description of your site contents, it would seem unlikely that deeplinks would be accepted, since links to other sites are not considered as 'valuable unique content'. It would be helpful if you could post your site here so that we can see exactly which pages you are talking about, but don't get your hopes up! You'll probably have to be content with getting your directory listed at all - that's becoming a rarer and rarer event as the ODP increases in size and scope.

[venividi]

I have almost the same problem, There are 29 pages I've built for my colleagues (translators)and there are another 30 or more colleagues on the waiting list). The fees go to an Italian charity (caring about deaf-blind) and my colleagues were happy to help but all the same they should like to be listed individually. The sites are all different from each other, of course, some even in two or three languages. I've started submitting the pages some months ago, but reading these posts makes me uneasy as I've noticed that some of my submissions never made it to the ODP (but I can't be sure you received them as I have problems with my firewall). Can I submit again those left out or is it spamming?

Thank you.

Valeria Vernon

[senox]

@freecelebpics and vernondata:

 

It's much easier for us to give you advice if you give us the URLs of the sites you're talking about, and maybe the categories concerned.

[venividi]

The category: http://dmoz.org/World/Italiano/Affari/Servizi_alle_Imprese/Traduzione_e_Interpretariato/Professionisti/ or the equivalent in English (depending on the page)

The site: www.e-passport.it I set it up for one-page multilingual minisites and as a matter of fact I have a couple of clients there (cason and debem in polish) plus a client who started it all by giving me 500 dollars for that charity. The next year I didn't feel like asking money again so I asked my colleagues who agreed to pay between 20 to 100 euros a year. In that way the carity gets regular money instead of a sum once in a while. My provider gave me 25 Mb extra space free of charge for this, including all services. The translator's sites are: ada_daria_scrimieri, ada_prisco, algo, amtrad_services, annalisa_cimmino, cinzia_pieri, cuppari_traduzioni, europa93, flaadt_traduzioni, francesca_marchei, gdlingue, graham_cole, hungarian_translations, laura_fenati, lorenzo_martinelli, marco_massignan, maria_elena_tondi, maria_teresa_cattaneo, marina_minute, maureen_young, mihaela_maricescu, paola_mariani, silvana_pagani, simona_vio, studio_inglese, tolmach, toska, ursula_leichtl and viviana_fernandez, all of them have independent directories (no main list). I did not submit the pages for one or two of them who have their own sites. I know, it would be a lot of work for you, but if I can help to get them 'on board' ... I see that there are only two on the list: www.e-passport.it/michaela_maricescu and www.e-passport.it/cuppari_traduzioni plus hungarian_translations here: http://dmoz.org/Business/Business_Services/Translation/Multiple_Language/Europe/Hungary/

and maria_elena_tondi here:http://dmoz.org/Business/Business_Services/Translation/Single_Language/English_and_Italian/

If you need me, I would volunteer as an editor (I no longer translate but have been in the business for about 15 years).

Regards

Valeria Vernon

[venividi]

I should like to know what is your opinion on whether I can submit my colleagues sites.

 

Thank you!

 

Valeria Vernon

[bpiccolo]

Similar Problem

 

Hello,

 

I have a similar problem as well. My primary URL is http://www.glidemagazine.com/ and is currently waiting review in http://dmoz.org/Arts/Entertainment/Publications_and_Media/Magazines_and_E-zines/.

 

However, there is a section of the site that is significantly different http://www.glidemagazine.com/downloads.php and really belongs in the following category

 

http://dmoz.org/Arts/Music/Sound_Files/MP3/Downloads/

 

Is this something that would be acceptable?

 

Thanks for your advice.

 

Brian

[spectregunner]

I have not looked at your sites, but here is a broad generalization:

 

In very, very few instances do editors agree with submitters with regards to deep linking within web sites. In the earlier days of DMOZ/OPD deep linking was a much more frequent occurance, but it occurs with increasingly less frequency now.

 

Part of this has to do with perspective. To a shoemaker, high heels and rain boots are entirely different things and may warrant separate links. To ODP editors, it is all just footware, and warrants a single link.

 

Now, if the shoemaker also has an apple orchard, we would give that some serious thought. Thus, a site that deals with celebrities, in our opinion, is a celebrities site. While Justin, Brittany and Michael may, in your opinion, be vastly different subjects, to us much less so.

 

These is also another issue that you need to be concerned with. Inappropriately/aggressively submitted deep links are, in the eyes of many editors, just antoher form of directory spam, and can be dealt with harshly.

 

I'll try and look at your sites later today or tonight.

[venividi]

I have not looked at your sites, but here is a broad generalization:

 

In very, very few instances do editors agree with submitters with regards to deep linking within web sites. In the earlier days of DMOZ/OPD deep linking was a much more frequent occurance, but it occurs with increasingly less frequency now.

 

Part of this has to do with perspective. To a shoemaker, high heels and rain boots are entirely different things and may warrant separate links. To ODP editors, it is all just footware, and warrants a single link.

 

Now, if the shoemaker also has an apple orchard, we would give that some serious thought. Thus, a site that deals with celebrities, in our opinion, is a celebrities site. While Justin, Brittany and Michael may, in your opinion, be vastly different subjects, to us much less so.

 

These is also another issue that you need to be concerned with. Inappropriately/aggressively submitted deep links are, in the eyes of many editors, just antoher form of directory spam, and can be dealt with harshly.

 

I'll try and look at your sites later today or tonight.

What a task, typing all these names!

I've prepared for you a page from where you can click to see any of them. It's here: http://www.e-passport.it/spectregunner.html. Tell me when I can cancel it.

On an impulse of generosity, I also applied to be an editor in one of the translators' categories just to help you, but fortunately they refused, the answer arrived like a pingpong ball in less that 15 minutes, pfft :-)

 

Thank you and best regards

 

Valeria

[foamcow]

I have not looked at your sites, but here is a broad generalization:

 

In very, very few instances do editors agree with submitters with regards to deep linking within web sites. In the earlier days of DMOZ/OPD deep linking was a much more frequent occurance, but it occurs with increasingly less frequency now.

 

Part of this has to do with perspective. To a shoemaker, high heels and rain boots are entirely different things and may warrant separate links. To ODP editors, it is all just footware, and warrants a single link.

 

Now, if the shoemaker also has an apple orchard, we would give that some serious thought. Thus, a site that deals with celebrities, in our opinion, is a celebrities site. While Justin, Brittany and Michael may, in your opinion, be vastly different subjects, to us much less so.

 

These is also another issue that you need to be concerned with. Inappropriately/aggressively submitted deep links are, in the eyes of many editors, just antoher form of directory spam, and can be dealt with harshly.

 

I'll try and look at your sites later today or tonight.

 

 

To this end :

I have recently taken ove development of a site (http://www.almanzora.com) that is primarily a real estate site. I have just submitted this to a regional category.

While the site mainly deals with property in a specific region of spain, there is a section that covers golf at a course in that area.

At the moment the site is built with frames (yuk!) so it may not be possible to link it effectively anyway. Hopefully I will be able to talk the client into letting me remove the frames from the site and tidy it up a bit.

[Alucard]

foamcow, do you have a question that you'd like answered, or was that a general comment?

[foamcow]

foamcow, do you have a question that you'd like answered, or was that a general comment?

 

Oops.. in all the excitement I didn't make that clear. I do apologise.

 

Yes, my question is, would it be ok to submit the golf pages to the directory under a suitable category as well as the main site in the regional real estate category?

[senox]

@bpiccolo

 

At first sight I'd say that this deeplink is not acceptable. It may be different from the rest of your site, but what we take into consideration is what it would add in terms of unique content to the mp3 category. Unless the mp3s you offer can't be found on any of the sites already listed it probably doesn't add much (or anything at all, no offense intended :-) ).

[bpiccolo]

Thanks for your reply. No offense taken

[senox]

@foamcow

 

At first sight the golf page would be listable, the content is quite distinct from the real estate content, it's almost a site on it's own.

 

The question however is which site presenting this Golf course should be submitted, since there's more than one: http://www.golfcompeticion.com/copadelrey/ and http://www.mojacaronline.com/018/ . I think the latter one would be more suitable for http://dmoz.org/Sports/Golf/Courses/Europe/Spain/ , as the first one focusses on the competition and not the course.

 

BTW, golfcompeticion.com/copadelrey/ doesn't seem to work in Mozilla/Netscape. That's not a reason not to list the site, but maybe you're interested to know that.

[foamcow]

@foamcow

 

At first sight the golf page would be listable, the content is quite distinct from the real estate content, it's almost a site on it's own.

 

The question however is which site presenting this Golf course should be submitted, since there's more than one: http://www.golfcompeticion.com/copadelrey/ and http://www.mojacaronline.com/018/ . I think the latter one would be more suitable for http://dmoz.org/Sports/Golf/Courses/Europe/Spain/ , as the first one focusses on the competition and not the course.

 

BTW, golfcompeticion.com/copadelrey/ doesn't seem to work in Mozilla/Netscape. That's not a reason not to list the site, but maybe you're interested to know that.

 

Thanks for that.

I have "inherited" this site from someone else. At the moment it is horribly coded and I am suprised any of it works in Mozilla!

The competition is actually an external site beyond my control but I was asked to put a link to it from the main Almanzora site.

The Desert Springs course is owned by the property developer whose site I am now looking after.

Once I get the site out of frames (client allowing) and rewrite it a bit then I will see about submitting the golf section. Perhaps it could be a separate site actually. That would make some sense.

 

Thank you again.

[Dyan]

Part of this has to do with perspective. To a shoemaker, high heels and rain boots are entirely different things and may warrant separate links. To ODP editors, it is all just footware, and warrants a single link.

 

I have a similar situation, so this conversation is very interesting to me. If I may, I have a couple of comments.............

 

Spectregunner, your point is well taken. But what I'd reply is that DMOZ doesn't simply have catagories like "footware". You run a directory that contains highly specific listings for things such as high heels and rain boots under the main 'footware' heading. AND that asks webmasters to place their sites in the catagory the are as specific as possible. The difficulty is that it doesn't always provide a good description of the site as a whole to the viewers who may be looking for specific things.

 

As I say, this topic intersts me because (frankly) I run a site that covers a wide range of topics. Some of my sections could easily stand alone and unique sites, in fact.

 

From your description of your site contents, it would seem unlikely that deeplinks would be accepted, since links to other sites are not considered as 'valuable unique content'.

 

I'm curious about that. Many sites listed in resource or directory catagories, yet they are almost 100% links to other sites. (If my site is accepted, it's 75% links to other sites because providing those links is a large part of the focus of my site) So can someone give a quick explanation of what would be considered "unique content"?

[hutcheson]

But what I'd reply is that DMOZ doesn't simply have catagories like "footware". You run a directory that contains highly specific listings for things such as high heels and rain boots under the main 'footware' heading.

Yes. That is for sites that specialize in high heels. They are not for sites that happen to contain some content about high heels.

 

AND that asks webmasters to place their sites in the catagory the are as specific as possible.

Yes. Their SITES. Not their PAGES.

 

The difficulty is that it doesn't always provide a good description of the site as a whole to the viewers who may be looking for specific things.

 

No. It provides a good description of the site as a whole. It doesn't -- and doesn't attempt to -- provide any description at all of every PAGE in the site. That is for search engines, site maps, site searches, and such tools. Can you imagine how many millenia YOUR site would be waiting for a site review, if the ODP had started by reviewing every page of the large sites which you hope to compete with, before reviewing yours? So be content with one listing THIS millenium, because that is what a human-edited directory can do.

 

I'm curious about that. Many sites listed in resource or directory catagories, yet they are almost 100% links to other sites. (If my site is accepted, it's 75% links to other sites because providing those links is a large part of the focus of my site) So can someone give a quick explanation of what would be considered "unique content"?

 

Yeah, it's what's not already in another site already listed in those categories.

 

We might look at all those links, and add the worthwhile ones to the ODP, in which case your site becomes 0% unique -- but you've contributed to the ODP (which is our goal) and you've promoted the sites you link to (which is presumably your goal).

 

Or we might just look at the number of links, and compare that with the number of links we (or other directories) already have. If we have substantially more links already, then we might just delete the submittal as being "of no use." [i've argued elsewhere that in the presence of several other, more comprehensive directories, a new directory actually has significant NEGATIVE value for both surfers and advertisers. You'd have to have significant uniqueness of some kind to overcome that deficit, before even beginning to earn the right to be listed. The chances of you being able to do that alone are ... miniscule.]

[pudsey]

Hi, my domain http://www.holiday-rentals.uk.com has being listed in DMOZ.. yay! It is listed under the region where my office is based, which is good, BUT, I was wondering if I could submit two or three other pages, i.e.

 

I have a lot of properties in Spain, and Florida, and wondered if I you think that I would stand any chance if I was to submit for these regions.

 

Also I have a travel shop, so when holidaymakers book their accommodation, they can book their travel insurance etc. Would I be able to submit my travel insurance page? It might first appear to be affiliates, but the companies signing up (only 2 at the moment) are paying clients, and I'm not excepting more then 6 companies.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Thanks, Darren

[venividi]

You'd have to have significant uniqueness of some kind to overcome that deficit, before even beginning to earn the right to be listed. The chances of you being able to do that alone are ... minuscule.]

 

The meaning of 'significant uniqueness' escapes me and not only me because otherwise we wouldn't be discussing here whether we can submit or not. Until now I saw abstract definitions which are interpreted in many ways, which means that being listed becomes almost winning a lottery.

I thought that the ultimate purpose of ODP was to inform. Now if a site contains information on say, 3 different sectors, there should be no doubt on whether each sector should be allowed to appear in three different directories or not.

Nobody better than the site owner or the webmaster can make the difference - because the first knows exactly what his products are and the second because he/she has studied them thoroughly before creating the site, that's a least what I do.

 

Not that I am saying here that editors don't know their job, not at all, I am saying only that they have a definition of unique content that is too abstract and they must apply it to something 'material'. Being listed or not is not an abstraction, it is very but very material and these rigid rules are obtaining results that I don't think were ODP's scopes.

 

Now, you would say, what is YOUR definition of unique content? I'll try to give one from my point of view as a surfer and not as a webmaster or site owner. Unique content is when there is no alternative. Hotel accommodation is not an alternative to travel insurance, so if I am looking for a hotel in Spain I would like to find all possible hotels, and if I am looking for travel insurance I expect to be able to see everything's that's available and not miss a site because this site is listed in the hotels section and is not allowed to submit in the insurance section as well. Please note that I have nothing to do with the person who spoke of hotels and insurance, my problem regards a number of translators even if they are translators they are not alternatives, they offer completely different services, different languages, different specialities, and even different regions. I think we should be able to submit to different or even to the same directory (like in the case I just mentined) and provide a short and exhaustive explanation.

 

Honest, clear multiple submissions should be accepted and the editors would then be able to use their time more profitably, that is checking that nobody spams otherwise one would think that being able to offer two, three or more different products, developping one own's business is regarded as something that must be punished, which is not ODP's intention I hope.

 

Valeria

[senox]

@pudsey

 

BUT, I was wondering if I could submit two or three other pages,

 

No, please don't.

 

What would the added value and unique content i.e. of your travel insurance page be for the directory? None (don't take it personal). Not every page that adds value and unique content to your site (compared to the rest of its content) also adds value and unique content to the directory. Not every site out there adds value to the directory. In this case we would list the sites of the insurance companies you link to (provided they are listable), but not each and every page that has a link to them. If you operated your own, independant travel insurance company along with vacation rentals then the situation might be different.

 

You can, however, submit your main URL for review to a category like http://dmoz.org/Recreation/Travel/L...ls/Directories/ if it's an appropriate one. The fact that you're listed in a Regional/UK category will not interfere with a review here. That doesn't mean your site will automatically be accepted, but it won't be considered spamming. Submitting deep links like the travel insurance or location specific ones will.

[spectregunner]

Nobody better than the site owner or the webmaster can make the difference - because the first knows exactly what his products are and the second because he/she has studied them thoroughly before creating the site, that's a least what I do.

 

But in some ways -- work with me on this -- the webmaster or site owner is the least qualified person to determine where a site should be listed, or how much of the site should be included.

 

Why?

 

It is simple, because their perspective is completely different. They are focused on building a website and on driving as much traffic as possible to it. The ODP editors are focused on one thing: building a directory.

 

We are guided by three things:

-- the ODP editor guidelines (which the general public can see)

-- concensus opinions (which only member of the editing community can see)

-- experience and judgement (both of which come with thousands and tens of thousands of edits)

 

We really don't care how much traffic a a given site gets.

 

We really don't care what the business goals of a site are.

 

We are trying to list sites (not pages) that will help surfers find unique content. (This is one reason why you'll see so many site from places like Geocities listed -- many, many of those funky, ugly, horribly-designed sites have wonderfully unique content that is often quite narrowly-focused.)

 

We also generally don't want to get into the business of splitting hairs with regards to content. This is where the distinction between listing sites and listing pages comes into play. A real estate site, for example, that has a page on rock climbing will not get listed in example/rocks/climbing. It is not going to happen no matter how passionately the site owner or webmaster argues. That is not what the site is about.

 

We do make exceptions -- and this is where experience and judgement come into play -- if a site about shoes contains some really great information about the grafting of apple trees, we'll give it very serious consideration. We also make exceptions for encyclopedic sites that provide expert information on a variety of topics (but each separate deep link is independently evaluated -- no one gets an automatic free pass for all of their content).

 

There is always history to remember -- in the early days fo the directory, the policy with regards to deep links was much looser, it grows increasingly tighter now.

 

The point being, that the webmaster and site owner are not privvy to all of the facts, history and perspective that go into determining the applicability of directory deep links. This is why we try and discourage webmasers and site owners from submitting them -- as the vast majority of such submissions are simply time wasters for editors.

[venividi]

It is simple, because their perspective is completely different. They are focused on building a website and on driving as much traffic as possible to it. The ODP editors are focused on one thing: building a directory.

 

We are guided by three things:

-- the ODP editor guidelines (which the general public can see)

-- concensus opinions (which only member of the editing community can see)

-- experience and judgement (both of which come with thousands and tens of thousands of edits)

 

We really don't care how much traffic a a given site gets.

 

We really don't care what the business goals of a site are.

 

Argh I was at the end of a long answer to this when I was interrupted. But I probably hit a key (or one of the cats walked on the keyboard) because when I came back everything had disappeared. Now it's too late, I must complete a job before dinner, but I want to say at least one thing. Your are right, yes, yes, no problem on this. However, I did not refer to traffic nor to business goals. I remember mentioning that I spoke as a surfer not as a site owner or designer, and as surfer I should like to receive complete information. That's all. If you are building your directory just for the sake of it, there's nothing that I can say, you are master of your time, but if ODP aims at providing information, in that case, well, allowing a site to submit to a number of directories should not be a rare event. Besides this, I heard/read that ODP is providing data to Google and the rest. It either gives information free of charge, and in that case I make a deep reverence and take off my hat, or in exchange for something, perhaps money. In that case I strongly doubt that Google - and the rest - would pay for information on original geocities sites only, because their surfers who are interested in business - I think that many of them are, but that's only my opinion - would immediately go somewhere else. So ODP has to provide information on business and should provide it as complete as possible. My doubt on this was that you cannot find specialists in every single matter, and that the editors may overlook the difference, say between a indoor swimming pool and an outdoor one that have in common only part of the name and the fact that they contain water. As for the rest, they are completely different, two unique contents. I am using this example, it's safe (the client is not publishing the site), but there are others and that's why we are discussing here.

Thank you for your attention,

Valeria

[Guest wrathchild]

Item #1 in our Social Contract ( http://dmoz.org/socialcontract.html ) says:

 

The Open Directory Will Remain 100% Free

 

Item #2 says:

 

We license our content as free with attribution back to the ODP.

 

"Google and the rest" get to use our data for free. The only requirement is that they give us credit. Period.

[lissa]

as surfer I should like to receive complete information.

 

As a surfer, it is important that you understand the difference between a search engine and a directory. The complete information is available in both, but you need to know how to extract it.

 

If for example, you want to look through a list of all cutlery sites available, regardless of whether or not other products are sold on those sites, you should use a search engine.

 

If you wished to look through a list of sites whose primary focus was cutlery, then you would look in a specific cutlery category in a directory. e.g. http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Home_and_Garden/Kitchen_and_Dining/Cutlery/ . Similarly, if you wanted to look at sites offering only china, you could look in http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Home_and_Garden/Kitchen_and_Dining/China/ . However, if you wanted to look at sites that offered both cutlery and china, but still focussed only on kitchen and dining, you would need to look one level up in http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Home_and_Garden/Kitchen_and_Dining/ . And if you really just wanted to look at sites that offered everything for the home, from cutlery to bed linen, then you should try one level higher.

 

A directory still presents a complete set of information, but in a different fashion than a search engine.

 

Our goal is to classify sites into the single most appropriate topical category. We consider listing deeplinks in other topics only when that topic is in a totally different area and the content for the topic adds a lot of value to the category. A different way of thinking about it is that usually those topics could be (and many times are) their own websites independent of the main site. If the topic is so closely related to the main topic that it wouldn't make sense to separate it, then likely a deeplink isn't warranted.