Declined or pending? Submissions lost since crash?

donaldb · Dec 30, 2006

Again, I'm not sure how this information would be of any value. As you can see we accept a lot of applications which means that it's not impossible for people to become an editor.

Your initial statement was that "almost every single application is declined" but you still don't have quantitative evidence that this is a fact.

There are many current editors who are also articulate and polite who were also declined on their initial applications. They reviewed what they had done, tried again, and got it right the next time.

Keeping something secret from the public does not mean that your assumption is true. We've never said that we accept all applications, and I would bet that a good number are declined (I honestly don't have a clue how many are declined because it's not something I've ever looked up), but obviously since we do accept hundreds a month, the number does not jive with your assumption that we decline almost all of them.

I don't want to get into a pissing match here. We're probably never going to see eye to eye on these issues. You obviously have a grudge against the ODP for some reason, but you know as well as anyone else that a listing in the ODP is not critical to a web site being a commercial success - so I'm not sure why you are so ticked off with us.

Remember that the ODP is not a listing service - it's not a service of any kind what-so-ever. It's just a bunch of people who are trying to build a web directory. There are by-products of this directory that have caused people to assume that it has some importance in the bigger scheme of things, but really that's not our fault. We're happy that people find the data that we have compiled, somewhat useful, but it's not going to change the way we go about building the directory. We accept suggestions to categories, and we use them if we can, and only if they follow the guidelines and if someone is interested in editing in that area, but we've never said that all suggestions will be used. Editors choose to use them if they want, but they have numerous ways of finding web sites to list in the directory.

If you have questions about how the ODP works, we will try our hardest to answer them, within the confines of our own communication guidelines, but if you're just coming here to pick apart the things that you don't like about the ODP, then this is probably not the right forum for you.

hypnoticvibe · Dec 31, 2006

donaldb said:
Your initial statement was that "almost every single application is declined" but you still don't have quantitative evidence that this is a fact.

donaldb said:
We've never said that we accept all applications, and I would bet that a good number are declined (I honestly don't have a clue how many are declined because it's not something I've ever looked up), but obviously since we do accept hundreds a month, the number does not jive with your assumption that we decline almost all of them.

donaldb said:
Again, I'm not sure how this information would be of any value. As you can see we accept a lot of applications which means that it's not impossible for people to become an editor.

It's not impossible, but almost all applications are declined. An editor account was put up on eBay for 1 day before eBay shut the sale down. In that short time there was already a bid over $650. Imagine what it would've been if the auction continued. Why would people be willing to spend that kind of money if it's not phenomenally difficult to get accepted?
I'll agree to disagree on that one.

donaldb said:
Keeping something secret from the public does not mean that your assumption is true.

OK then what's the motive in this case?

donaldb said:
I don't want to get into a pissing match here. We're probably never going to see eye to eye on these issues. You obviously have a grudge against the ODP for some reason, but you know as well as anyone else that a listing in the ODP is not critical to a web site being a commercial success - so I'm not sure why you are so ticked off with us.

I'm not ticked off with you. I'm not ticked off with anyone in this forum. I'm ticked off that I submitted my site almost a year ago and nobody will give me any idea about what's happening. I don't even know if it was turned down or pending after waiting a year. I'm ticked off at the operation's handling of webmasters who beg them for help, but I'm not ticked off at any person.

donaldb said:
Remember that the ODP is not a listing service - it's not a service of any kind what-so-ever. It's just a bunch of people who are trying to build a web directory. There are by-products of this directory that have caused people to assume that it has some importance in the bigger scheme of things, but really that's not our fault. We're happy that people find the data that we have compiled, somewhat useful, but it's not going to change the way we go about building the directory. We accept suggestions to categories, and we use them if we can, and only if they follow the guidelines and if someone is interested in editing in that area, but we've never said that all suggestions will be used. Editors choose to use them if they want, but they have numerous ways of finding web sites to list in the directory.

The first half of this post is pretty relevant to that.

donaldb said:
If you have questions about how the ODP works

In your personal opinion (I realize there are no guarantees), do you think my website will be accepted?
(that is, disregarding that debates in this forum exist)

makrhod · Dec 31, 2006

I hope somebody decides to close this thread soon, because it is apparent that absolutely no progress is being made in terms of explaining what the ODP does and does not offer. "There are none so blind ... "

After all the time spent providing explanations, helpful replies and links in multiple threads, we are simply wasting our energy if hypnoticvibe can still say with apparent sincerity

nobody will give me any idea about what's happening

Happy New Year.

pvgool · Dec 31, 2006

hypnoticvibe said:
In your personal opinion (I realize there are no guarantees), do you think my website will be accepted?

To answer that question we would have to review the site and that is something we don't do in this forum.
If you want to know if your site is listable you can read the guidelines at DMOZ. O wait, we have already said that didn't we.

I agree with makrhod. It seems a waste of our time to answer questions of people who are making it very clear that they are not interested in our answers unless it is the answer they want to hear. So hypnoticvibe, this is the last answer you are getting from me.

hypnoticvibe · Dec 31, 2006

I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't want to offend anyone.

crowbar · Dec 31, 2006

I can see, from a site suggesters view, how frustrating it could be to have no way of finding out the status of a site suggestion, hypnoticvibe, not just for you but for everyone.

It would be nice to know if the suggestion is:

1. still awaiting review
2. been denied a listing and deleted

The problem is that the answers to those questions generate follow up questions.

#1
1. Why hasn't it been reviewed
2. How much longer till it's reviewed?
3. Is there an editor to review it?
4. If not, why not?
5. Should I resubmit it to a category where there is an editor?
6. Is there an editor I can contact?

#2
1. Why was it rejected?
2. Can I change the site to get it accepted?
3. Can I have another editor review it and give a second opinion?
4. Why have these similar sites been accepted, but mine rejected?
5. Is this editor my competitor?

And, each of these invites a further debate about what we're doing and why we're doing it. It also gives some of the less scrupulous site suggesters information about our procedures that we'd just as soon they didn't have.

"Hmm, ok, that didn't work, let's try something different, maybe I can get around that little obstacle, and work the system to my advantage."

So, you see, answering these questions just makes more work and uses more time than we have available, and it doesn't benefit the Directory, it does just the opposite.

Also, when I'm reviewing a site suggestion, I look at the content, not the skill of the web designer. I don't judge a site by how sophisticated it is. Some of the most interesting and valuable sites, in my eyes, are very mom & pop, simple type sites with unique information on them.

Is this something a web surfer would find useful? or is it the same ole crap I can find on 12 other similar sites? How is this suggestion going to benefit that particular category?

It is the judgement of human beings, something a programmed machine doesn't have, that makes the Directory of value to surfers. Our only purpose for being here is to make informed decisions about content, and organize it in a way that makes sense to us.

motsa · Dec 31, 2006

Imagine what it would've been if the auction continued. Why would people be willing to spend that kind of money if it's not phenomenally difficult to get accepted?

I would expect that the people who are willing to spend that kind of money for an editor account probably have sites that have no hope in hell of being listed any other way. If such people are finding it difficult to become editors the usual way, then we as meta editors are doing our jobs right. People wanting to join the ODP for altruistic reasons wouldn't likely feel driven to buy an account.

In any event, I agree with makrhod that this thread has really outlived any usefulness it may have originally had so I'll just close it.

jimnoble · Dec 31, 2006

Agreeing with makrhod. Closing.

<added> Durned Canucks

donaldb · Dec 31, 2006

Sorry guys, but I have to reopen this thread. I can't not respond to some of this because I think we might be making some headway here. I think we need to continue this discussion (as long as it stays on topic and civil) because I know that many people have the same confusion about what it is the ODP is all about and if we keep saying it, maybe it will eventually sink in.

hypnoticvibe said:
I'm ticked off at the operation's handling of webmasters who beg them for help, but I'm not ticked off at any person.

When you say you're ticked off with the operation, to us it does mean that you're ticked off with the people as well, because the people that participate in this project are the operation. Also, begging us for help is not a worthwhile use of your time. We can't help anyone with how well their web site does - it's not our thing.

I think you need to take off your "webmaster" hat for a second and pretend you're not trying to get better page rank for your site. I think that maybe you're getting mixed messages from other sources about what the ODP is supposed to be doing. I can understand this because it's a common misconception. I'm going to say this in caps, because it really is important - THE ODP IS NOT A LISTING SERVICE FOR WEB SITE OWNERS - I'm not shouting there, just trying to make it clear. Think about that for a second. I know that you think that's what it's all about but it honestly not. I know it appears to people outside the project that that's what it is, but it really isn't. The ODP is not Yahoo!

The ODP is a directory being built by a bunch of people who get a weird enjoyment out of building a directory as a group/team/community. The ODP is not trying to list every web site ever created. For the most part, editors just want to add web sites to the directory. The goal is that maybe some people will use the directory to find what they're looking for (we realize that people don't use directories as much as they use to), or that someone will use the openly available RDF file that we create for whatever reason they see fit.

The reason that you feel persecuted by us is because you think we're not doing the job that you think we're supposed to be doing. You think we're supposed to be listing web sites in some reasonable amount of time, but that's not our mandate. You really need to forget about the ODP being a part of your marketing plan. There are a million other ways to get your web site noticed. The ironic thing about it is that if you create a web site that really is the hottest thing out there for a particular topic, an editor is probably going to notice it from some other source and add it to the directory.

I'll say this again as well because it's important. We really do appreciate people who use our Suggest a URL functionality to help us build the directory. But people have to realize that it's not a submission service, it's a way for you to help us. We look at that tool as a way for the general public to suggest web sites that we might like to add to the directory. We don't care who suggests a web site - web site owner, someone who uses the site, even SEO people, as long as they understand that they are just making a suggestion of something we might want to use.

A person might know about a bunch of really informative dance instruction web sites that would fit in one of the dance categories, and if you suggested those sites an editor who also has an interest there might see those suggestions and would review the sites and add some, or all of them, to that category. But if there was no editor who has an interest in that subject, it might be a while before someone comes along to review those suggestions. That's not saying that they will never be added, but it might be a while before someone stops by there to look at them. If that's the case, it's a shame that no one has an interest there to edit that category, because those might be really great sites to add to the directory. But maybe that same person who suggested the sites will decide that instead of suggesting the sites, they'll decide to apply to be an editor, and if they get accepted they'll add those sites themselves. That's the way this thing works.

We're not punishing web site owners in any way, shape, or form. We're not ignoring web site owners. We're just not building the ODP for web site owners. Web site owners may be our users, but that's only if they are coming to the directory to find an infomrative web site, not if they're trying to get their web sites listed. We appreaciate it that web site owners want to help us build the directory by suggesting their web sites, but that's all it is, helping us do something that we like to do so that users might find those web sites a little bit easier.

Again, sorry for re-opening this thread, but I really think we need to try to make it clear what we're doing here or else we're just going to have another pissed off person running back to another forum to bitch about how evil the ODP editors are all the time, and the cycle will continue

Declined or pending? Submissions lost since crash?

donaldb

Member

hypnoticvibe

Member

makrhod

Member

pvgool

kEditall/kCatmv

hypnoticvibe

Member

crowbar

Member

motsa

jimnoble

DMOZ Meta

donaldb

Member