DMOZ a Monopoly

What we find irritating is that between DMOZ and Google if they choose not to list you then Google page rank will be affected. Page rank determines whether Google takes more of your URL's from your sitemap. Google uses DMOZ.
So we have a site with 700,000 URLs+ we have a page rank of 2, we have hundreds of "one way backlinks to us" and a high hit rate, but we still have not been listed DMOZ and Google chooses to take its sweet time to crawl our URLs, after 4 years Google has crawled exactly 1/10th of the URLs in our sitemap. We are getting 40,000 hits a day and no one in Europe knows we exist.

The power of DMOZ and Google to "do a site in" is equal to the things it can beneficially for a site. We wait and wait and wait.
A site that is a competitor opened their site 9 months after us, we both submitted to the same category, I submitted 9 months before they existed. They were listed 3 years ago.
Our site is a direct competitor to there site, and we have the exact same category.

Their ability to draw overseas advertising is based on the engines over their using DMOZ as their directory, were not listed DMOZ, they are.
Are we ticked off? Absolutely is their anything you can do about it? NOT ONE THING!

So DMOZ and GOOGLE have the power as to who succeeds and who will fail. That kind of thing ticks people off that spend 15 hour days trying to get their site known while others get a free ride.

So, yes after 5 years a person should be ticked off, I know I am. If DMOZ can suggest another submission facility that carries the weight of DMOZ I would be there in a moment. Paid or not, but it seems that volunteers can just take their time and deem success or failure with the flick of a page.

Whats the difference between Microsoft preventing others from being perfectly compatible with Windows and what DMOZ is doing? I see no difference. Just because they are volunteers, it does not mean that people should tolerate inconsistency or perhaps competitive favoritism either.

Yes I have volunteered and, no I have not received a thing back from DMOZ, so either you have all the volunteers you need, or you do not read emails either.

Nice being a Monopoly isn't it? I likely will go out of business before someone actually lists me all because my competitors were listed quickly and I was not. Thats fact!

I gave my submission to the retired administrator of my competitor, my submission was literally identical to theirs. He had a chuckle, he says that if my competitor submitted "a second" submission to DMOZ "on my behalf" with a totally whacked out category, then the second submission may be why I have never been listed. Its what "they do"!

If he knows that, then obviously the "volunteers here" know that. In which case if you start a site and don't want your competitors to succeed just keep submitting DMOZ listings on "behalf of your competitor" and make sure you change the category continually. The "reviewer" sees the mass confusion he will reject your competitor. The reviewers never contact the site to see if the submissions were yours or someone "doing you over", so the trick works.

I am sure that is what has happened to me.

Must be nice to be a Monopoly that can kill a site with, or without your knowledge?

Yes I have volunteered and, no I have not received a thing back from DMOZ, so either you have all the volunteers you need, or you do not read emails either.

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All editor applications should receive reply -- either an acceptance or a rejection. So if you didn't receive a reply, either your application never made it into the system*, it's still pending, or your spam filters ate the reply.

(* To make it in to the system, you need to receive the automatic acknowledgement email you get as soon as you submit an application, and then reply to it. You'll then get a second automated email to let you know your application is now waiting to be reviewed.)

If it's been more than 14 days since you applied, you can check the status of an editor application in the "Becoming an Editor" forum here at RZ. If you post there, be sure to read the sticky "Forum Guidelines" post with details of the information you need to supply.

It seems that you might have been taken in by obsolete SEO advice which is often perpetuated by the ignorant.

We're just a bunch of volunteers building a directory of useful websites for our own pleasure and for use by surfers and a few hundred downstream data users, of which Google is just one. If you ask them, Google will tell you that they treat an ODP listing as just another inbound link. This is from the mouth of their Matt Cutts who seems to be their spokesman in the blogosphere. Perhaps you could Google him up and read what he has to say on the matter.

We don't believe that we have the power to make or break a website. If you really think that your business success depends upon the actions or inactions of an uncontrolled and anonymous bunch of hobbyists, I suggest that you close it down now. If you think that's harsh, ask your financial advisers.

[quote name=%26%2339%3Bjimnoble%26%2339%3B date='04 July 2010 - 12:01 AM' timestamp='1278223289' post='278360']
It seems that you might have been taken in by obsolete SEO advice which is often perpetuated by the ignorant.

We're just a bunch of volunteers building a directory of useful websites for our own pleasure and for use by surfers and a few hundred downstream data users, of which Google is just one. If you ask them, Google will tell you that they treat an ODP listing as just another inbound link. This is from the mouth of their Matt Cutts who seems to be their spokesman in the blogosphere. Perhaps you could Google him up and read what he has to say on the matter.

We don't believe that we have the power to make or break a website. If you really think that your business success depends upon the actions or inactions of an uncontrolled and anonymous bunch of hobbyists, I suggest that you close it down now. If you think that's harsh, ask your financial advisers.
[/quote]




Actually you do have the power, as I said, whether you are aware of it or not. Many directories in Europe use DMOZ. So if you are not listed in DMOZ you are not listed in 95% directory in the Europe.

The difference is obvious if you live in Europe, perhaps you are in America?

Also I noticed not one here replied to the competitor submitting bogus DMOZ submissions "on your behalf"?

We all know you are volunteers, and we all appreciate the work that you do, when you do it. However, I write this because I have seen numerous people complaining about their business site not being listed DMOZ. They have tried everything humanly possible to find out why its not listed. DMOZ removed the only way possible to see why you are not listed or whether your application has even been seen.

I personally watch companies that started their site and obviously submitted after I did, get listed in the same directory category I applied for. In DMOZ submission it clearly states that you are not to submit your listing request more than once. Which leads one to the opinion that if you do submit more than once, then there may be some retribution for doing so? We can all see why inconsistent, or multiple category submissions would be disallowed and cause great anguish for volnteers, perhaps to a point of just disregarding the submission?

So, if I want do not want a competitor to be listed in Europe, I then submit rubbish submissions on his behalf and make his life miserable? How fair and equitable is that?

Out of 31 directories in the Europe we are personally aware of, 29 use DMOZ as their source. So if someone wants to advertise from the US to European based websites, they then search these directories for the category they operate in. They then copy the contents and then submit advertising proposals to the ones they are interested in, were not there!!

For many of us who took the time, and ensured that the directory/category and placement was exactly where we should be, have been waiting for listing for years. One site who operates a Forex site ( I do not) submitted to the category, that was populated by 9 sites at the time. He submitted 5 years ago and since than about 400 sites have sprung up, all after he was already running. Now all the members that he is aware of, have been listed except him, and obviously the ones that are still waiting that he is not aware of. A site that started a year ago, is in his category??

It is the inconsistencies of the volunteers that seem to be at issue here. Has anyone heard of FIFO? "First IN First OUT"?

We know you underestimate your ability to interfere, we watch it everyday. It may not be an issue in America, but its certainly an issue over here.

Why not charge for the service? Why not load more volunteers into the category that are the fastest growing, like Forex, or other categories like it?

DMOZ is the Directory most look too, whether you know or like it. That means that if you are not listed you are not on the planet in Europe. The ones listed have to be far less aggressive to achieve the same things as we do. So yes it does impinge on your business and "No" the SEO is not ignorant of the fact.

Start charging $50 a listing or something, and have a "progression form like the Trademark office does". At any time if you want to find out what stage your trademark is at, you login and you can see how far your application has progressed.

The present submission process is open to any abuser that intends on trying to keep you off the planet.

Lastly- I will resubmit my application, because unlike others I am not a complainer that does not want to see things get better. However, consider the trademark process, and consider a FEE, the FEE would pay volunteers for applications processed and would create some need for speed that would supersede some of us waiting for 5 years plus.

Actually you do have the power, as I said, whether you are aware of it or not. Many directories in Europe use DMOZ. So if you are not listed in DMOZ you are not listed in 95% directory in the Europe.

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If the directories are only using DMOZ data, then they're pretty worthless as link sources, given that they would just be mirrors of DMOZ. And if they aren't only using DMOZ data, then you should be able to submit your site for a listing without being in DMOZ.

Also I noticed not one here replied to the competitor submitting bogus DMOZ submissions "on your behalf"?

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It's been answered before. We've seen that suggested as a possibility, but it's not an issue. (We're really quite clever when it comes to situations like that.)

They have tried everything humanly possible to find out why its not listed. DMOZ removed the only way possible to see why you are not listed or whether your application has even been seen.

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"DMOZ" didn't remove anything. The editors who run this unofficial forum decided to stop giving status information. There's a difference.

In DMOZ submission it clearly states that you are not to submit your listing request more than once. Which leads one to the opinion that if you do submit more than once, then there may be some retribution for doing so?

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There is no retribution (except in the cases of egregious spamming), but resuggesting your site to the same category changes the date on it. If the editor who chooses to edit that category sorts the list by date, then all you've done is move yourself to the bottom of the list. And submitting it to the wrong category will delay things because it will have to be sent to the right one to await review all over again. So there is little purpose in resuggesting a site continually.

It is the inconsistencies of the volunteers that seem to be at issue here. Has anyone heard of FIFO? "First IN First OUT"?

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We've heard of it. But we don't operate by it. Some editors choose to edit the categories they edit in a (mostly) FIFO manner, but most do not. In effect, we operate in a random manner.

Why not charge for the service?

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Charging has been suggested many times. It isn't likely to happen for a variety of reasons.

Why not load more volunteers into the category that are the fastest growing, like Forex, or other categories like it?

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You really couldn't pay me enough to edit in a Forex category so I'm glad that we have a policy of letting volunteer editors edit where they want and not where someone else thinks they should edit. Forex may be important to you, but it clearly isn't to many editors or the category would be edited regularly. (That goes for any other category as well, not just Forex.) That's the nature of how we operate -- editors choose where, when, and how much they edit. There's no assigning tasks or "loading" involved or even possible. (And if there was, Forex and many of the other categories that site owners feel are important wouldn't be where I would personally want people editing as a top priority, but that's just me.)

consider a FEE, the FEE would pay volunteers for applications processed and would create some need for speed that would supersede some of us waiting for 5 years plus.

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Charging a fee and passing that on to volunteers would invite abuse (and given how the volunteer system is structured would be difficult to manage). And with payment, much of the value the directory has would be lost.

TC9 said:

Why not charge for the service?

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There are two parts of this statement that are impossible.
1) The starting point of DMOZ is the fact that it is FREE. And that will not change.
2) DMOZ does not provide a service for people to get a website listed. It is impossible to ask money for a service you do not provide.

Echoing motsa's comments about Forex categories. I'd take no pleasure delving though the pools of spammy and worse listing suggestions seeking out the occasional jewel when I could be much more productive elsewhere.

This isn't my fault or my problem. It's solely caused by the myriad of folks who create floods of dross websites and suggest them to there.

TC9 said:

So we have a site with 700,000 URLs+ we have a page rank of 2, we have hundreds of "one way backlinks to us" and a high hit rate, but we still have not been listed DMOZ and Google chooses to take its sweet time to crawl our URLs, after 4 years Google has crawled exactly 1/10th of the URLs in our sitemap.

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Dear

1) can you plz tell us your domain
2) i dont think if you have PR2 for 7hk urls ur crawl-repo is 1/10
3) my best advice is just resubmit app;ication & wait for 14 day again check it here & post request without talking about else fresh app

good luck & plz write ur domain name in reply or PM

1) can you plz tell us your domain
2) i dont think if you have PR2 for 7hk urls ur crawl-repo is 1/10
3) my best advice is just resubmit app;ication & wait for 14 day again check it here & post request without talking about else fresh app

good luck & plz write ur domain name in reply or PM

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1) can you plz tell us your domain
Unless done by PM, that would be against this forum's T&C

We registered a site about 2 weeks ago, we have not heard anything back from DMOZ.
Can anyone help us or give advice?

I read that it must be placed in the correct category, we have done so - Classifieds.

Does anyone know how long it takes Google to crawl the site properly?

Thanks,
Mark
[URL Removed]

We registered a site about 2 weeks ago, we have not heard anything back from DMOZ.
Can anyone help us or give advice?

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The only thing that you will hear back is the acknowledgement when you suggested the site. The site will be reviewed by an editor as quickly as possible which can be anything from a few days to a few years.

Does anyone know how long it takes Google to crawl the site properly?

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You would be probably best asking Google that rather than us.

I feel your pain. They reject my submission for no apparent reason whatsoever.

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In DMOZ submission it clearly states that you are not to submit your listing request more than once. Which leads one to the opinion that if you do submit more than once, then there may be some retribution for doing so?
There is no retribution (except in the cases of egregious spamming), but resuggesting your site to the same category changes the date on it. If the editor who chooses to edit that category sorts the list by date, then all you've done is move yourself to the bottom of the list. And submitting it to the wrong category will delay things because it will have to be sent to the right one to await review all over again. So there is little purpose in resuggesting a site continually.

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Great so competitors can keep you at the bottom of the list by continually resubmitting you.

If you are so backed up you can't look at a listing for weeks months or years why don't you take more editors on?

I too applied to edit and was rejected for no apparent reason.

I too applied to edit and was rejected for no apparent reason.

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Maybe that is where you are going wrong.

The e-mail that you received has several reasons, which at least one of the reasons apply, why you weren't accepted as an editor. If there are no further reviewer notes then concentrate on the reasons that were given.

Hi,

I tried to add my company's website about 2 years ago and haven't seen any progress really.
I don't even remember if I received a confirmation email...(It's been that long)

Is there anyway to know where I stand in the registration process?
Someone here suggested some kind of queuing system to be put in place.
Since DMOZ plays such a huge factor in any site's PR, why not do something like that?

Thanks!

Voice Crafters said:

Is there anyway to know where I stand in the registration process?

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No.

Someone here suggested some kind of queuing system to be put in place.
Since DMOZ plays such a huge factor in any site's PR, why not do something like that?

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Because there is no queue. When a site is suggested it goes into a pool, from which editors can fish. It is not possible to determine when a certain fish will get hooked...

(If DMOZ plays a huge factor in PR is debated and you better ask Google about that.)

informator said:

No.


Because there is no queue. When a site is suggested it goes into a pool, from which editors can fish. It is not possible to determine when a certain fish will get hooked...

(If DMOZ plays a huge factor in PR is debated and you better ask Google about that.)

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That makes as much sense as I thought. So a company waits for years to get listed. You "say" you have no relevance or little, and Google agrees. Well sorry both you and Google are wrong. DMOZ is used by a huge number of directories throughout the world. Those directories become "links" to a site whether you agree or not. They also are the places that advertisers cruise to determine who to advertise with! If you are not listed in these directories you do not even get the phone call!

So unless you, personally, are running an unlisted DMOZ site, I really do not think you can make those statements with accuracy. If you say there is little relevance to DMOZ then you are saying that the numerous companies that rely on your index are wasting their time waiting to be listed, because it really depends whether you are the "lucky fish" today?

Has DMOZ no sense of fair play? At an absolute minimum it should be "First In First Out". I can assure you, knowing I am an "old fish" and could die before I receive a listing does not make me believe there is any intention of fair play or organization here. Absolutely none! Its one thing to be a volunteer site. Its an altogether different thing to be a site, with no rules of fairness in the selection process, and admitting it !

Sheesh man get with it!

TC9 said:

Has DMOZ no sense of fair play? At an absolute minimum it should be "First In First Out". I can assure you, knowing I am an "old fish" and could die before I receive a listing does not make me believe there is any intention of fair play or organization here. Absolutely none! Its one thing to be a volunteer site. Its an altogether different thing to be a site, with no rules of fairness in the selection process, and admitting it !

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FIFO might make sense if we were a listing service. That's just a guess though, since I've never been involved with a listing service. But we emphatically are not a listing service. The suggestion pool is only one source of listings, and in many categories, it is the least productive one. And dealing with suggestions and listings is only one of the things that an editor does. If I decide to build a category, I can take a look at the suggestion pool if I wish, and cherry pick any that happen to look promising. Then I'll go looking for sites. If it is a local Regional category, those sites might be from my personal experience or from sites that I've seen on local advertising. If it is a topical category, personal experience and searching the web might be most productive. We don't even require sites to be suggested, which is the most fun part of this hobby IMO. If this were made pay and FIFO, editors would leave in droves. We do this for fun.

DMOZ is used by a huge number of directories throughout the world. Those directories become "links" to a site whether you agree or not.

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From a Google PR point of view, those are all duplicate content to DMOZ and their links don't carry a great deal of weight, if any.

you are saying that the numerous companies that rely on your index are wasting their time waiting to be listed

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Emphasis on the WAITING. It takes only a couple of minutes to suggest your site, which IMO is not a waste of time, but hanging around, desperately waiting for that suggestion to be acted upon is indeed a waste of time. Numerous sites manage to do quite a good business without a DMOZ listing.

Has DMOZ no sense of fair play? At an absolute minimum it should be "First In First Out".

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Why should it be FIFO? That presumes that sites whose owners learned about DMOZ are inherently more valuable to users than sites whose owners never heard of us. We don't make that presumption. We offer a suggestion tool for people who don't want to just rely on an editor tripping over their site somewhere else, but the suggestion tool (and the resulting pool of suggested sites) is only one very minor tool that editors can use to build up the directories they edit. To us, this essentially random method of edit is about the fairest way we could do it as possible, because it doesn't give priority to sites that are suggested over sites that aren't. (If we were a listing service for webmasters, I'd understand you expecting preference, but we're not so you shouldn't.)

TC9 said:

So unless you, personally, are running an unlisted DMOZ site, I really do not think you can make those statements with accuracy.

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I have 3 websites, 1 is listed with DMOZ and has a PR of 0 (although it is fairly new). The other two, not listed, have PRs of 3 and 4. Mmmmm

TC9 said:

Has DMOZ no sense of fair play? At an absolute minimum it should be "First In First Out". I can assure you, knowing I am an "old fish" and could die before I receive a listing does not make me believe there is any intention of fair play or organization here. Absolutely none! Its one thing to be a volunteer site. Its an altogether different thing to be a site, with no rules of fairness in the selection process, and admitting it !

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I think you're missing the point. It's not DMOZ's problem how other organisations do their listing (or ranking in Googles case). You should be railing aginst those directories, not DMOZ. Putting it simply, DMOZ is a collection of volunteers who try to create a quality directory listing, what happens to that listing isn't up to DMOZ.