DMOZ is a bureaucracy based on a tissue of excuses

>it's difficult to understand how a free, volunteer service can be so malformed.

You're looking at a tractor and wondering why it won't go over 25 miles an hour -- obviously a malformed transmission, not to mention horribly un-aerodynamic body metal. Or perhaps you're looking at a Ferrari roadster and wondering why it bogs down pulling a 20-bottom plow -- malformed transmission, no doubt, as well as absurdly inadequate ground clearance.

Or, is it, just possibly, the driver is using the wrong tool for the job?

Oh, I know, I know, you HAVE only a roadster, and it's "critical" you get this field plowed. Or you have only a tractor, but winning a race is critical to your career. Will your perception of your needs change reality?

In this respect, in this critical aspect of what the ODP does, it's not malformed at all: it's very effective at NOT offering you as a webmaster ANY kind of service. That is critical to its integrity and its reliability: surfers have an absolute right, which I (as an editor) have committed to serve: the right to independent website review and classification.

Independent of whom? Who would be pressuring editors for bias? Who else but the webmasters?

So, if you're looking for websites, welcome. If you want to help us find websites, welcome. If you're looking for webmaster services, then -- welcome, and do you need help finding the exit?

As an editor of a very small regional category, the submission tool is very helpful because sometimes I just can't find all the sites related to my category. I've added 30+ sites through my own web activities and 1-3 because of site submissions. In this situation the submission tool definately helps. In larger categories, it may be less helpful because of the volume. Just my 2 cents.

I think it should also be added that the reason why DMOZ is looked upon so highly by the community is largely in part because of the standards DMOZ has put into policy and the way that it operates. Could it be better? In some ways I think yes, but for the most part it works just fine.

I think you are correct.

Ouyr high standards means we don't just list everythng, and that means that our downstream users place a higher value on our output.

If we opened the floodgates by lowering our quality, everyone and their mother would be listed, and no one would regard our output.

dan.kotarski said:

I, too have been waiting a LONG time to get listed. Everywhere you look on the internet, you'll find that you "should only submit your site once every three months........etc etc

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Out of curiosity, what catagory were you submitting to?

I'd guess http://dmoz.org/Sports/Fantasy/Football/Commissioner_Tools/

you'll review it and maybe give me a reason why it could not be listed

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This is a sentiment that I often see expressed, and it baffles me. Now my colleague hutcheson has given some wonderful explainations as to why the informatin is esentially useless, but I wonder if people understand.

Just a few minutes ago I reviewed a site. It doesnt matter whose site, and it doesn't matter what part of the directory it was suggested to. If I have to give a candid reaons why I declined to list the site it would be along the lines of:

Summission suffers from a profound lack of unique content, virtually all content can be found on dozens or not hundreds of similarly templated sites. Listing would add zero value to the directory.

Now, if that were your site, what would you do?

Think about it, because that description probably applies to more than half of the sites that do not get listed.

What would you do?

I give up

I came here to ask the same questions other thread asked "why not listed for soooooo long time without any notice, etc". After gone thru the threads, I give up! Because:
1. I won't get answers
2. I won't get useful suggestions/helps
3. I don't like the tones here ... so I "go somewhere else"
4. I shouldn't expect much from here ... "we are all volunteers, so too bad"
5. DMOZ does not charge me a penny, so "don't complain, don't check"

So I would hope and ask: when will DMOZ become a charged listing? And this will SOLVE all the problems here.

edmoore said:

1. I won't get answers

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We give answers all the time.
But people just don't want to understand why it is impossible for us to answer questions like "why isn't my site reviewed yet". They also seem not to understand (or don't want to to understand) what DMOZ realy is.

edmoore]So I would hope and ask: [COLOR="Red said:

when will DMOZ become a charged listing?[/COLOR"] And this will SOLVE all the problems here.

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This question I can answer :secret: : NEVER
And it won't solve any of the DMOZ problems at all.
And No: webmasters wanting to get their site listed fast isn't a DMOZ problem at all. If you want such a service go to Yahoo or any of the other payed directories.

edmoore]So I would hope and ask: [COLOR="Red said:

when will DMOZ become a charged listing?[/COLOR"] And this will SOLVE all the problems here.

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C'man, making DMOZ a paid only directory would take all the fun out being an editor!!

edmoore, the problems you describe are YOUR problems. Like most other problems, they are very important to some people, and not at all important to others.

The ODP was set up to solve a particular set of problems. Oh, no, not YOUR set, not that at all. For one thing, someone else (for instance, Yahoo!) already had (and still has) a perfectly good solution for them! For another thing, your problem is distinctly individual -- solving it wouldn't help anyone else in the world, and in most cases like yours would hurt society at large as much as (and usually much more than) it would help you. Volunteers like to think their work will have more impact, and a more positive social impact, than that. Volunteers tend to think in terms like this: "if you're that concerned about the problem, you go solve it -- or at least start building the tools to solve it!"

So the ODP attracted a group of volunteers who were interested in that OTHER set of problems, by offering tools to help address that OTHER set of problems.

There are many problems the ODP community (as such) and most of its members (as individual editors) simply aren't interested in solving. For such problems, the members who ARE interested, go somewhere else -- somewhere someone has set up tools and community to address THOSE problems. (And in fact, most ODP editors probably volunteer at one or more of those other places. I could list MY other places, but any other editor would have a different list anyway -- and you might not be interested in my help solving yet another set of problems anyway.)

So, the volunteer perspective. What are you doing to solve your problems? Can you show that what you are doing will really help other people? Can you provide the tools, and a mission, that will attract volunteers? Oh, not the ODP volunteers as such, of course: they're off doing something else. perhaps a very few of the ODP volunteers as individuals. But think of it. There are millions of volunteer organizations in the world. And 99.999% of them don't attract more than one volunteer of out of a hundred million people. Unless solving your problem is uniquely, preternaturally attractive, you shouldn't expect very many volunteers -- if you can't count the number of ODP volunteers you attract on your thumbs, you're probably doing extremely well. (So don't restrict your evangelization efforts to ODP volunteers!)

It's like lining up outside a bakery on Saturday and waiting for them to sell you fish.

But if the bakery is only open Monday-Friday, and is not interested in selling you fish, then no amount of complaining and waiting will solve your problem. Accusing the baker of being a self-centered jerk just misses the point.

Sorry to say

Dan,
There are always few bad apples in Freelance/volunteer world of Dmoz. Whatever you say will definitely be true. In anycase, this is my story....
I tried for several years/months to get listed. No results. Fought with editors on digital forms. All editors out there ganged up on me and relentlessly gave me the same info. I have even complained about an editor, who got her website listed in few days from the launch of her website. No good at all.

Finally, this is what i did.
Improved my website (never hired a SEO), signed up for Adwords and got links from other websites. Today, i am on page one of google, yahoo and msn.

Iam still not listed and don't care about it anymore.
Iam sure my website is blacked out (banned) and will never be listed. I am Ok with it.

--sri

I'm not sure you're right about your website, but I'm sure you've taken the right approach.

>> ganged up on me and relentlessly gave me the same info

Would you have been happier if ten editors gave you ten different answers?

You'd have no way to know which one was right.


If ten editors all gave you the same answer, then maybe that really is the answer.

giz said:

>> ganged up on me and relentlessly gave me the same info

Would you have been happier if ten editors gave you ten different answers?

You'd have no way to know which one was right.


If ten editors all gave you the same answer, then maybe that really is the answer.

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To tell you the fact that information was not about DMOZ listing policies or even remotely related to it. If i tell you what it is, we will have the same conversation over and over again.

If you read those threads and get a full context of the heated conversation you will understand how that discussion progressed.

If I recall correctly it wasn't just "all editors", there were quite a few non-editors (most of which I wouldn't consider to be really big fans) who were also saying the same things. But this is getting off topic for this thread.

shadow575 said:

If I recall correctly it wasn't just "all editors", there were quite a few non-editors (most of which I wouldn't consider to be really big fans) who were also saying the same things. But this is getting off topic for this thread.

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You are right. Not a good idea to continue.