How about telling submitters to become an editor if they want a prioritized review

gazzerman

Banned
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
4
Jackpot!

Wow, all my questions are answered, erm no!

The research was done for the right reasons, not in the aid of SEO. The research was conducted on the basis of being listed on DMOZ, not on how to scam the best positions.

Its quite clear that you have answered one question though and that is the fact that there is an abundance of incompetence in this forum thanks for your detailed response.
 

spectregunner

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
8,768
If you are going to start name calling because you don't like the content of a single response I suggest you go find a different forum, because no other editor is probably going to want to give you a more detailed response.
 

hutcheson

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Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
The ODP is older than Google. It is just possible that the Google folk share our evaluation of marketing sites -- you'd have to ask them that. But basically, we don't list them.

The ODP is meant not to be a marketing tool, so marketers are better off without it, and surfers are better off with it. Again, you'd have to ask Google how they balance the relative social claims of marketers and surfers.

If it seems to you that ODP editing patterns are random, then you're getting the right impression. It seems random to us on the inside also. I've elsewhere argued that's a Good Thing -- think of it as a deliberate attempt to simulate a representative section of a nondeterministic finite-state automaton traversing the entire web.

I think only you yourself can be blamed for your ignorance of the ODP. If you are interested, you can read the editors' guidelines even without being an editor. You would quickly learn why it is impossible for any editor to "control" a category.

As for your "ratings", I can't imagine what you're thinking of, or why you think the ODP editor would even know them, let alone care. We have two ratings: In or Out. And we rate based on the website alone.

As for "market research targeting the ODP" ... erm, I would ask you politely not to do that, if I thought it would do any good. I would tell you it won't be a productive use of your time, if I thought you would believe me. As it is, I'll merely express my faith in my fellow editors: so far as deprecating market research targeted sites, we're not perfect, but NOBODY on the web does a better job. And we'd love to hear about such sites that have been listed -- in order to rectify our errors.
 

bobrat

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Apr 15, 2003
Messages
11,061
signed up a year ago to prove a point
What was the point?

If they are still here after a year they must have edited some sites - that's good - we like editors - no matter how little work they do. Every edit counts. Remember that five hundred editors only doing one review a month end up reviewing 6000 sites.

having your site listed in dmoz plays a big part on where you stand in google with your keywords
Sorry - we don't care.

bringing the overall standard of search engine results too its knees.
If the search engines are that bad, you should not use them, or complain to them about lob-sided algos.

considered to be the best in their fields
Which usually has no relevance to the qualities that make a good editor. If I worked as an editor for a magazine I would be fired by the end of the day.
 

gazzerman1

Member
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
6
Thankyou

Firstly thankyou hutcheson for your reply and also to you bobrat, I appreciate the time you have taken to answer my questions, I speak for a very large group of people remember its not just me. I am not here to be rude or argumentative or here just for the fun of it. ODP is frustrating many people and questions are not getting answered so I am trying to make the first move here. If you simply just tell people not to bother submiting sites then thats cool, we know where we all stand, you dont HAVE to do anything we know that, its just people are tired of the wild goose chase.

Oh and whats the point in blocking my last login from making posts, I am only trying to chat here, thats what the forum is for isnt it. I hope there are many people reading this post with same opinions as me and are not wasting YOUR time with the same questions over and over.

Oh and thanks jimnoble that was very constructive I expected a more grown up response from you. I have great respect for your work with a fellow programmer of mine who worked with you on the real time projects, dont lower yourself.

Kind Regards
 

gazzerman1

Member
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
6
Interesting

This is an interesting LINK. Its just one point of view but like I said before, its not just me.

What do the rest of you think?
 

hutcheson

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Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
Well, I've spent about 10 years writing programs to process text files into very efficient processes (working on world-class optimizing compilers), and about 10 years writing programs to process very large, very complex database files very efficiently. Everywhere I've worked, I've been the one other programmers ask about the really complex performance issues. I'm not that easy to impress technically. And I've been extremely impressed with the ODP technical people.

On the other hand, anyone whose level of technical expertise is limited to "text files bad--databases good" certainly impresses me, although in a different direction. In the real technical world, every design decision is a tradeoff between efficiency for particular classes of operations, efficiency for other kinds of operations, and maintainability. Flat files are obviously much faster for some things; databases are easier for some things. But there isn't anything a database can do that you can't do faster with a flat file -- if only because all modern databases are built on top of flat files, and any CS graduate should be able to hand-roll an efficient database structure in a combination of files and memory. A naive user (or hey, for that matter, an ordinary technical expert) simply can't tell by watching optimized processes what the underlying technology is, let alone how it's being used: it's only when one starts pushing the limits that one can begin to deduce what kind of limits are present, and therefore what the technology was optimized for -- and maybe, just maybe, get a clue to the optimization approach.

In the real world, putting together a Lego model of a transmission doesn't equip you to design transmissions for diesel machinery. It is, at best, preparation of a mindset that (in a sufficiently intelligent and motivated mind) could receive an education that would prepare one to help tweak different types of transmissions for several years -- and then maybe, just maybe, be able to have a clue about what attributes a transmission for a big rig needs.

The ODP design decisions have vindicated themselves in the only way that matters: the original design cruised up to a factor of four beyond its original design limits; with a slightly faster computer and offloaded public access, it is still cruising. "database access" has been near-utility grade; database performance has been (except for when it hit the wall) almost always spectactularly good. During that time, we went through one horrendous file format change (ascii to utf), while maintaining essential user access. It has proved effective at doing what editors need to do most, and extraordinarily efficient at doing what editors do most often.

Anyone who has ever written performance-intensive code for a 50-to-100-million record database is cordially invited to make suggestions. Anyone else is cordially invited to visit the nearest university with a CS department and looking for an opportunity to begin the decade-long process of learning the ability to form a technical opinion worth listening to.

I think we need a test to give people who want to make process or program suggestions to the ODP. It needn't be very difficult:

(1) Have you been reading Dilbert cartoons daily for at least five years?
(2) How many times in the last five years have you not "gotten" it?
(3) How many times in that time have you not thought it was funny?

If we required answers of "more than five years", "less than 5", and "less than 2", then ... I don't think we'd have lost a single sensible suggestion. Because most of these suggestions -- Scott Adams wrote them up long before we ever saw them.

<added>That editor being quoted may have been me. If not, it could well have been me: it did not misrepresent what I would have said. And I should at least express my appreciation that someone cared enough to take the trouble to understand and paraphrase an ODP position. (In the SEO forums, misrepresentation is ubiquitous -- and whether caused by venal malice or mere technical cluelessness, it is the opposite of constructive.) But -- as for any kind of experience, there is only so much of an answer you can comprehend if you've never actually wrestled with the question.
 

pvgool

kEditall/kCatmv
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Oct 8, 2002
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10,093
Old news and mainly wrong information.

For item 1 see thread at http://resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39442

The end of ODP has been announced form the beginning. And guess what, we are still here - still growing faster than any other directory. These statements always come from people who don't agree with how we want to DMOZ to be. ODP will never be the thing these marketeers and self pronounced search engine experts want us to be. Just tell me. Why are these people spending so much of their time complaining and predicting our end? There is only one answer: they want to make money and think that we must help them in al possible ways, and if we don't want to there can only be one reason the editor must be a compititor keeping them out. They just don't get the idea that there are people in this world that don't care about making money but just want to give things for free.

Conclusion:
1) We don't care about people that want a listing for totaly the wrong reasons.
2) Even if the predictions about the end of ODP as a mojor source for Google being near we (the editors) would very probably continue building the directory for the selected few who want to use our data.
 

pvgool

kEditall/kCatmv
Curlie Meta
Joined
Oct 8, 2002
Messages
10,093
Luckely enough there are some experts that know what they are talking about.
See for instance http://www.webpronews.com/insiderre...AreYouAGoogleDroppingTenWaysToGetBackTo1.html

And his conclusion is
It's so important I have to say it again. CONTENT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENT OF YOUR WEBSITE. Content content content content.

Or look at this forum http://www.ihelpyouservices.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=19057
these seo's have an excuse of some kind to tell their clients they have not performed well for:

"well, we can't get you into the ODP, and that's why you aren't doing so good." "It's their fault". "They are bad." "They are corrupt". blah, blah, blah.
 
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