Is DMOZ corrupt (as many SEO expert claim)?

Are the SEO-expert telling the truth when they claim that the Open Directory (DMOZ) is corrupt (and that I therefor should be paying a SEO-consultant with direct access to DMOZ to get me listed)?

I have always believed that the Open Directory is indeed an independent group of website editors who see to it that the directory maintains of high standard, and than only relevant websites get listed in their (rather inadequate, but that is another matter) categories.

I have three times undertaken to get my website – <url removed> – listed in the Open Directory, under the category that come closest to what Getalife is – as social & activity based networking site: relationships.

Many months later, after noticing that my site as still not included, requested a listing under another category (Regional: Oceania: Australia: New South Wales: Society and Culture) - in the last category is also included a social clubs like Afterwork.com.au, which do simliar things then Getalife (though on a much smaller scale).

Unfortunately, after several attempts, spread over a 2 year period, I have never succeeded in getting my site listed in the Open Directory.

As you will appreciate, this has severe implications for my google ranking, and ispo facto for my website & business.

I have never received a reply to my email requests for clarification.

Recently i got even more appauled when told by three (3) different SEO-specialists that the Open Directory is not neutral and objective at all, but that an URL entry & admission is really only possibly when going through a commercial SEO operator. In other words: pay me and I'll get you a DMOZ-listing.

Is this really true? How disgraceful this would be. I would take great pleasure in telling the next SEO who tries to coerce me into a deal that the Open Directory is not corrupt at all, but is indeed what they claim they are: an objective, non-biased and reliable web directory.

Yeah, sure right.

Jelle said:

I have three times undertaken to get my website listed in the Open Directory ..... Many months later, after noticing that my site as still not included, requested a listing under another category ..... unfortunately, after several attempts, spread over a 2 year period, I have never succeeded in getting my site listed in the Open Directory.

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This is mainly because of a misconception of what DMOZ on your site.
You can not undertake any action to get your site listed in DMOZ. The only thing you can do is suggest a site, by doing so you will inform editors about the existence of a site of which you think that it is worthwhile for DMOZ users and which fits within DMOZ guidelines. Nothing more, nothing less. And these guidelines clearly ask you to suggest only ONCE to the ONE best category.

Jelle said:

As you will appreciate, this has severe implications for my google ranking, and ispo facto for my website & business.

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This is also a big misunderstanding. DMOZ does not have severe impact on Google. Just the same impact as any link on an other website has. And it certainly has no impact at all on your business. There is only one thing that can have impact on your business: you and the way you present it on and off the internet. If your business is not succesfull you are the problem and not some outside factor you can't control.

Jelle said:

I have never received a reply to my email requests for clarification.

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Correct. You will not get a reply from DMOZ. Not when the site is listed and not when it is rejected.

Jelle said:

Recently i got even more appauled when told by three (3) different SEO-specialists that the Open Directory is not neutral and objective at all, but that an URL entry & admission is really only possibly when going through a commercial SEO operator. In other words: pay me and I'll get you a DMOZ-listing.

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They are lying. The only thing they can do is suggest your site.
But we like to know who these wannabee-SEO-ers are (they are certainly no specialist as they don't know what they are talking about). Or can you point us to a website where they are telling you this nonsense. We might try to correct them.




Is this really true? How disgraceful this would be. I would take great pleasure in telling the next SEO who tries to coerce me into a deal that the Open Directory is not corrupt at all, but is indeed what they claim they are: an objective, non-biased and reliable web directory.

Yeah, sure right.[/QUOTE]

If you look at any webmster forum, there will be a goodly percentage of SEO people cmpaigning against DMOZ as well as claiming that all editors are corrupt, lazy, dress funny etc. They also complain that they cannot get to be editors.

DMOZ is not about promoting businesses. Commercial categories only make up a small proportion of the directory. Proportionally the number of editors in commercial categories compared to the number of suggestions is low. Hence the time to review in these categories is long.

DMOZ has an application process designed to weed out the possible corrupt editors which is quite effective. However occassionally one slips through and operates until they are detectd and removed. In any organisation there will be a small proportion of 'rotten apples', it is a fact of life. Some will get away with it for longer than others , again a fact of life. This is why we have a 'report abuse' system so that people like you can report editors wanting cash/favours for a listing.

It is the SEO industry is corrupt as can be seen from your post. If you pay for a DMOZ listing, you are waving your money goodbye. Anyone and their dog can claim to be an SEO and charge for their 'services'. There is no application process and no 'report abuse' form. The ethical SEO's seem to be in the minority and the unethical ones will even risk their clients sites being banned by Google.

regards

Recently i got even more appauled when told by three (3) different SEO-specialists that the Open Directory is not neutral and objective at all, but that an URL entry & admission is really only possibly when going through a commercial SEO operator. In other words: pay me and I'll get you a DMOZ-listing.

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I want to urge you to exercise major caution if you choose to go the path of paying someone to get you into the directory. The only way they could guarantee that is if either they or someone they know are editors. Your paying them for the listing would constitute bribing an editor, something that we take VERY seriously and something that would result in the pemanent banning of your site.

Are the SEO-expert telling the truth when they claim that the Open Directory (DMOZ) is corrupt (and that I therefor should be paying a SEO-consultant with direct access to DMOZ to get me listed)?

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ODP editors cannot be bribed or badgered into listing anything, Jelle, if that were so, I would not be an editor. I have a full time business of my own, that's how I make my money, not by accepting bribes.

In fact, if I were paid by the ODP itself , I wouldn't be an editor, either, because I volunteered to do this freely as a community service, and my satisfaction comes from doing a good job, giving something of myself to others, and enjoying it.

If it became a job, and I lost the freedom to choose when and where I wanted to edit, it would quickly lose it's appeal to me, as I am a self starter, self motivator, and very independent minded. That's why I started my own business from scratch, I like the freedom it gives me, .

So, I can tell you straightup, that those people are total liars, and if we ever do catch an editor accepting bribes, they'll be gone in a flash, as having disgraced all of us who are honest, and you'll find ex-editors out there who were let go for those very reasons. It is not tolerated.

One idea from me - before loosing/spending money for SEO, check how high their PR is...because the biggest part of their sites have PR 5-6.

And if you feel that you have to improve your site - hire good programmer and/or content manager.

Regards

• If we're not corrupt, we'll say we're not corrupt.
• If we are, we'll still say we're not.

So I'm not sure why you're asking us .

Perhaps you should be asking ex editors.

• Those who were fired, were mainly fired for directorial abuse of one sort or another. They'll likely say we're corrupt.
• On the other hand, honest ex editors will probably say we're not.

So how do you tell them apart ?

Tricky huh?

Hmm, very deep thoughts by Jim.
Remembers me of this statement:
"Everything I say is a lie"

A good reason why you shouldn't trust SEO's is because if they are relying on the DMOZ to get you a good page rank, they are more than likely amateurs in the business.

Originally when I started web design, I thought the only way to get to the top of results was via the DMOZ, but with a little research, I found that google, yahoo, and Live.com all provide more than enough ways to get to the top or damned close to it.

So when an SEO blames the DMOZ for all their woes and problems, point out that they don't need the DMOZ to get their clients good page ranks. some hard work, creative thinking, and original research goes a long way and pays off.

And check the page ranks of all their clients, not just them SEO.

Anyhoo, a well designed web campaign can develop your website nicely among targeted keywords in a short period of time and you don't need the DMOZ to be the cornerstone of it, why? Because your website is the cornerstone.

Very nice summary, Azselendor,

One SEO trick I came across was a website design and SEO company who put links to its latest clients on its own high PR pages. The high PR was achieved by having all the sites that they had designed chock full of links back to various pages on their site. Effectively their SEO consisted of getting their clients to provide links to them! So a new client would get a dozen or so PR5-7 links and ride high in the SERPs. Once the company got their money, the links were removed and the site would drop in the SERPs. However that site would still be leaking PR back to the company.

regards

Budalata said:

One idea from me - before loosing/spending money for SEO, check how high their PR is...because the biggest part of their sites have PR 5-6.

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You can't check current PageRank. The Google Toolbar displays an out of date number. The PageRank could be sky high but the Google database the Google Toolbar accesses is http://www.seocompany.ca/pagerank/page-rank-update-list.html only updated once in a great while.

And just what is your definition of "a great while"?

months

As in geology, time can be very misleading as far as search engines are concerned.

In the Great Scheme of Things Search Engine, "months" is really only a moment.

Instant gratification is not always a good thing ...

motsa said:

I want to urge you to exercise major caution if you choose to go the path of paying someone to get you into the directory. The only way they could guarantee that is if either they or someone they know are editors. Your paying them for the listing would constitute bribing an editor, something that we take VERY seriously and something that would result in the pemanent banning of your site.

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I do believe a great effort has gone in to making my site list able. I am pretty sure it is black listed, for reasons unknown or I am just to stupid to see why it is banned and or black listed.

I do believe this area is were my site would have best fit now

http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Classifieds/Automotive/

Last update: 14:35 PT, Sunday, December 31, 2006 <-- See this

http://dmoz.org/Shopping/Classifieds/Automotive/Classics/

Last update: 9:17 PT, Wednesday, September 20, 2006

I would not consider even paying for a listing in the Dmoz directory as it would be a total waste of time and money.

I do believe the editors are a close nit community of people who all collaborate with each other and talk about sites and editor applications.

Sites who commit internet fraud get listed. Dmoz wont de-List them and internet laws wont enforce the law against these sites and prosecute them. The internet has just like the wild west no clear laws.

Like I said before we are good enough to steel from but not good enough to list. Other car sites come to our site call our customers telling them they are better one such person got caught and they mentioned how they have a dmoz listing bla bla bla they came down in price to match our price and still use the same old line bla bla bla. We blocked there Ip from visiting out site only to find out again the used a proxy the next time to visit and start the calls again.

This is being completive what a wicked world

We can't stop you from leaping to whatever mistaken conclusions you choose to (despite our efforts to educate you to the contrary) but, please, stop repeating yourself. You know that we're not going to go check on the situation surrounding your site so continually speculating about it here is really a pointless endeavour. I'm not saying that to be mean. I don't imagine it's helping you to keep venting here and it's not going to change the fact that we can't do anything for you.

motsa said:

We can't stop you from leaping to whatever mistaken conclusions you choose to (despite our efforts to educate you to the contrary) but, please, stop repeating yourself. You know that we're not going to go check on the situation surrounding your site so continually speculating about it here is really a pointless endeavour. I'm not saying that to be mean. I don't imagine it's helping you to keep venting here and it's not going to change the fact that we can't do anything for you.

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Dont take this wrong I am not venting, as you might think. I am just so tired of others gaining of my site and my efforts and I not gain any thing.

I work so hard to make my site write and othes get to the top being crooked and slimmy with out giving ethics a second thought. I have to sit back an ask why bother to be honest when being crook gets you futher.

Is this what the internet world is coming to,

With out going in to deep

September

There was a person who made 30+ thosand dollars of our site listing other peoples cars and stiffed us on the ads. This person charges and average of 199.00 an ad some people paid as much as 2k to list several cars claiming they would sell the peoples cars in 30 days. They made such claims as`"we also send your clssified information to 75,000 registered collectors" on top of that they said the cars would remain listed till sold. When the ads started to expire and they did not answer the phones who do you think got the calls.

WE found this crap out on December 24 when we got 15 calls and the calls have not stoped.

So yes I am in a foul mood I can not believe that people get away with this every day.


This is what we got in return

72 El Camino said:

Tim, I have 3 separate e-mails from <site removed>. Will send each to you separately. This if the first. - FYI, <name removed> is <name removed> sister and shortly after this e-mail she told me she was getting married and her new last name was going to be <name removed> .

Again, a huge THANKS for your genuine concern and consideration. I will be sure to let all my car friends and clubs know about your sites and your honesty!!!.

----- Original Message -----
From: <name removed>
To: <name removed>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 1:06 PM
Subject: 72 El Camino

As you requested when we spoke on the phone, below you will find our contact information, website and our marketing package information.

The <site removed> <site removed>

More Details:

$199.00 Package:

We create a Front-Page Featured Ad at the <site removed> and the <my site name removed>. Next we post your classified on some of the most visited websites in the country for collector cars. Our partners include <site removed> , <site removed>, <site removed>, and about 70 others. These sites have over 2 Million unique visitors a month.

We also send your classified information directly to over 75,000 registered collectors.

With the kind of targeted exposure we give our clients’ vehicles, over 85 percent sell their vehicle in less than 30 days.

This is a ONE TIME fee. We do not charge commission or any other closing fees, and all of your advertisements run until your vehicle is sold.

$299.00 Package:

Includes all features of $199.00 package with the addition of an online auction component. We place your vehicle in a 7-10 day eBay online auction; if your vehicle does not sell through the eBay auction, we will then list your vehicle for auction on The <site removed> free of charge until the vehicle is sold. We pay all eBay listing fees and any applicable auction closing fees.

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We gave this person and many many others free ads to replace the ones they were told they would get from the fraudster. So my christmas on both sites went to sh*& for income and because I am the "Nice guy" I will carry the ads untill the cars are sold.

Nice guys fiinish last always, one day I am going to wake up and find out it does not pay to be a nice guy.

Happy New year in four minutes.

I hope 2007 is better then 2005 and 2006 has been for me.

And why do you come with this problem to us. Nothing we can do for you.

I think you should read the last paragraph (1) in this posting. IMHO it very clearly explains why many websites are not so succesfull as their owners hoped it would be.

We're not the Internet police, timamie261.

Just my own opinion, but, perhaps you need an attorney who specializes in Internet matters, I know they exist. Maybe copyright laws would come into play.

It sounds like you need to keep certain key information in these ads, private, so the responders have to go through you to make contact. If you are the middleman for information, no one can screw you on either end.

Unless you password protect key information, there is nothing that will stop people from stealing what you put out there, or linking to it from their sites, and pretending it's their own.

I can understand why you would be depressed and discouraged, but becoming what you hate isn't the answer either, stay on the high road, and try to figure out a better way to protect yourself honestly, .

There has to be away to get sites who use these type of business practices de listed with Dmoz.

Whether or not its NC3 who notifies Dmoz or some sort of agency once adequate proof is supplied.

I have called and reported and stewed over this and cooked and boiled while nothing gets done.

I do beleive the wild west needs to come out of the internet some how even if it means some sort of internet gun slingers.

There has to be a way to remove the corruption, And dont get me wroung here I am not saying Dmoz is corrupt.