It's Hard to Defend DMOZ

old_crone · Jun 18, 2004

The reason the search engines don't like cloaking is because it's used to give different content to the search engine than it offers to the searchers. That is not a problem for the ODP since it's not a search engine. What the editor sees is what the searcher will see so the site does not get any kind of advantage over any other ODP listing. In other words, the cloaked pages are not the reason it was listed, therefore it will not be the reason it might get removed. However, the ODP does remove sites that cloak the URL within a full page frame causing the real URL to remain hidden. It's not that difficult to spot this type of cloaking and you certainly do not have to be in the real estate business to spot them.

Being an editor does not require expertise in the field you might choose to edit. It requires a basic understanding of the guidelines and the ontology. If you happen to have both then that's a plus but not a necessity.

Janeth · Jun 18, 2004

As a searcher I do not care what the site does to get to #1 cloaking or anything else. As long as the end results are what I'm looking for.

motsa · Jun 18, 2004

I would have to disagree with you. In order to edit fairly you need to have an understanding of the industry you are editing for. ODP guidelines can not cover every industry out there. So therefore you must use a knowledge you have of a industry in order to be able to edit that category.

And you would be wrong. Very wrong. Especially when it comes to real estate sites. "Experts" in real estate tend, in my experience (with a few remarkable exceptions who know who they are), to be extremely poor ODP editors largely because they tend to think as you do, that knowledge of real estate equals knowledge of how to edit in the ODP. Now, I'm not saying knowledge of an area isn't good in many cases. Just saying that no one *has* to have knowledge of a particular field in order to be able to edit. Experts are relatively easy to come by; experts who can edit or be trained to edit according to our guidelines are not.

xixtas01 · Jun 18, 2004

I think Real Estate categories are hard to edit. Industry knowledge would be helpful, I'm sure. Luckily, editors recognized that early on and we have good documentation about that subject. Personally, when I edit a Real Estate cat, I just have to muddle through, relying on the guidelines and FAQs. If I have a question, I ask.

We do have editors who are quite knowledgeable about that (and nearly any other) industry.

spectregunner · Jun 19, 2004

Personally, I enjoy editing real estate sites. I like shining the bright light of truth on them, and watch as they take their mirrors, redirects, grandiose claims and the like with them as they skitter under the sink.

Just saying that no one *has* to have knowledge of a particular field in order to be able to edit.

If that were true, then we'd have an editorial team laden with PhD's. Thank goodness that never came to pass.

Atlanta Realtor · Jun 19, 2004

motsa said:
And you would be wrong. Very wrong. Especially when it comes to real estate sites. "Experts" in real estate tend, in my experience (with a few remarkable exceptions who know who they are), to be extremely poor ODP editors largely because they tend to think as you do, that knowledge of real estate equals knowledge of how to edit in the ODP. Now, I'm not saying knowledge of an area isn't good in many cases. Just saying that no one *has* to have knowledge of a particular field in order to be able to edit. Experts are relatively easy to come by; experts who can edit or be trained to edit according to our guidelines are not.

I would agree with you that it is not needed but if that person does have knowledge of that industry...it is of great value.

Atlanta Realtor · Jun 19, 2004

old_crone said:
The reason the search engines don't like cloaking is because it's used to give different content to the search engine than it offers to the searchers. That is not a problem for the ODP since it's not a search engine. What the editor sees is what the searcher will see so the site does not get any kind of advantage over any other ODP listing. In other words, the cloaked pages are not the reason it was listed, therefore it will not be the reason it might get removed. However, the ODP does remove sites that cloak the URL within a full page frame causing the real URL to remain hidden. It's not that difficult to spot this type of cloaking and you certainly do not have to be in the real estate business to spot them.

Being an editor does not require expertise in the field you might choose to edit. It requires a basic understanding of the guidelines and the ontology. If you happen to have both then that's a plus but not a necessity.

I only mention cloaking as a subject because it has been posted by an editor that the integrity of the directory comes first and foremost. If you allow a cloaking or banned website by google into the directory then where is the integrity or how is it protected?

Atlanta Realtor · Jun 19, 2004

Janeth said:
As a searcher I do not care what the site does to get to #1 cloaking or anything else. As long as the end results are what I'm looking for.

Real estate happens to be an industry that it is important. Do you realize that the realtor you choose from the internet is going to be handling most likely the biggest purchase you will ever make. Do you want someone handling that purchase or sale that is using what would be considered black hat tactics and I know you know what those are

Most consumers dont know what you do..but I am surprised you would say this being in the profession you are..Well maybe not

old_crone · Jun 19, 2004

If you allow a cloaking or banned website by google into the directory then where is the integrity or how is it protected?

I think you are confused about the difference between a search engine and a human edited directory. Cloaked pages have no advantage in the ODP what-so-ever. They are not manipulating placement as they are trying to do with Google. So, why should the ODP ban a cloaked site that has been banned by Google? How does that compromise the ODP's integrity?

flicker · Jun 19, 2004

Yes, it's Google those pages are trying to scam, and Google has their own well-honed hammer of smite to bring down on them, so there's really no problem with us just staying out of the way. (-: We have enough dirty tricks to hunt down which *do* affect our users and the quality of our directory--the invisible ones which manipulate engines or directories other than ours are better handled by the engines and directories in question. Google in particular seems capable of defending itself. (-:

giz · Jun 19, 2004

>> Real estate happens to be an industry that it is important. <<

It probably is, but only to those actually in that industry. However, I would guess that anyone in any of the other 450 000 categories would say the same thing about their subject area too.

bobrat · Jun 19, 2004

And these guys are important to someone too [and this categroy does not get too much spam]

Science: Biology: Flora and Fauna: Animalia: Arthropoda: Crustacea: Malacostraca: Stomatopoda

jordancpeterson · Jun 20, 2004

Atlanta Realtor,

Something that you might not realize is that the most important thing we as editors look at when reviewing a site is if it has unique quality content. We really don't care if the site has hidden text or is cloaked or tries any other sneaky SEO tactic (although I don't recommend any webmaster trying to get away with that, it will just make the review of the site all the longer).

It's Hard to Defend DMOZ

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motsa

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spectregunner

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Atlanta Realtor

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old_crone

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flicker

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giz

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