No redirecting sites. Why?

No, you have not missed it. The site, if included in ODP, will be lsited under it's "real" URL.

This policy has been discussed in the past, since from a certain point of view, for sites such as you are describing, it makes more sense to list the "sensible" URL, rather than the long one. This would be especially true, as it would seem to me that in cases like this, the site might be moved to a different hosting serve while maintaining the "vanity" URL.

However, the policy as it stands now is to list the actual URL of the location of the site.

Why list one URL?

Well, Joe's used cars business was faltering so he put some of his stock on a little web page on a free host. Within days a couple of old wrecks had been sold out to new homes. Then he saw that Jim down the road was building a big new shiny bricks and gleaming glass showroom in place of the old dusty lot and tin shack he had always had there. Joe wondered how on earth he could afford to do that.

Later in the week he stumbled across jims-used-cars.com a big and impressive web site that looked like a big corporation site and obviously pulled in a lot more business than freehost.com/joe/used-cars/ ever did. So he gets to work and buys the joes-used-cars.com domain, redirects it to the freehost, and gets in a geeky kid to build him a new website just as flashy as Jim's. He notes his site comes up well in search engines too. That kid sure knows what he is doing.

Business improves for a while and then it takes a dive. Nearly saved enough to build a bigger showroom than Jim's and then this happens. Damn. Joe is puzzled, but then one day he happens to do a search for used cars losersville and is suprised to see the top ten results as:

jims-used-cars.com
jims-used-autos.com
jims.used.cars.com
jims-used-fords.com
jims-used-trucks.com
jims-used-wagons.com and so on.

So he gets that geeky kid back in, and gets him on the case to set up 100 new doorway, redirect, domains for joes-trucks, joes-autos, and so on; and "while you are at it kiddo, I just found this new directory thing called the ODP. Jim ain't listed in that. Make sure you submit all 100 domains for my business to the ODP, and we'll surely wipe old Jim's business off the face of the Earth, eh kid?"

That is why we list the true URL of the site; the place where the content really is, and not any doorways, redirects or vanity URLs. So: one site, one listing.

Just in case Joe tries to get clever and gets the idea to duplicate the content across multiple domains instead, or to split the content for trucks to one domain, cars to another and so on, that is why we also have the rules about mirror sites, and related domains too. So: one site, one listing; without regard for how many pages, folders, subdomains, or domains make up the whole site.


Related question: http://resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18197 (which I only saw after I wrote the above).

No redirecting sites. Ok, then....

Hmm. Ok, a lot to think about there.

In fact, Bobrat, you're absolutely correct. I already had it in mind to find a dirt cheap hosting server which I could transfer the site to, while at the same time keeping the 'sensible' URL to help club members and new enquirers to find the site.

However, I can also see Giz's point, in that the directory would become unmanageable if there were no way of reining in people's desire to advertise their businesses.

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to reply. I think I'll try and register the site under the 'long' URL for now. How easy is it to change the URL if I did move the site? Is it simply a case of registering again?

Regards,

Andrew

There is an "update URL" link besides "suggest URL". It has a place for a new URL.

When working in a category, many editors do the updates first. (It looks worse to users if we have broken links than if we are missing sites.)

>> However, I can also see Giz's point, in that the directory would become unmanageable if there were no way of reining in people's desire to advertise their businesses. <<

Nearly all of the things we do, and all of the rules that we have, are done that way to keep spammers at bay.

I have the problem that our company operates multilingual sites. The base URL is in German and already listed with you. Can I have a second listing in the English section with the address of the English section? There is not much point in English-speaking people landing on a German site.

Why don't you link the sites with a language chooser (such as a flag) and we will list the same url in both categories with a note that the site is in both languages. [German, English]

We prefer this to using deeplinks as deeplinking means the listed urls go dead with every site redesign. odpexample.com rather than odpexample.com, and odpexample.com/e or odexample.com/en or odpexample.com/en/this-page-required-as-index-wont-work.html

Whilst *you* may not ever change your structure you'd be surprised how many do - all of which adds to our dead link count for a while, adds extra work tracking down where they have gone, verifying that new url is for the same site, and readding it.

:tree:

Not to mention the fact, that sometimes bilingual Germans will sometimes browse the English side because it has more listings, but prefer the German page when given a choice.

So, if I split the site at a later date (as is planned), I can forward the changed URL to the English section and leave teh German part as it is? There is no point in having directory entries if I don't at least try to keep them up to date!

We would prefer that you submit only the same root domain (of your main site) to each ODP category, and then on your site have a set of clickable flags that users can use to go to alternative content, elsewhere (where in a folder, or a sub-domain, or on another completely separate domain), chosen by language.

You aren't required to do it that way, but that is what we find the most convenient to manage.

I understand your reasoning perfectly. It is just that if I have two different URLs in future (.com and .at) it would be logical to list them separately. Too much linking would risk a penalty for affiliate sites if they are on the same server.

if I have two different URLs in future (.com and .at) it would be logical to list them separately

Click to expand...

Not in ODP it wouldn't. That a website is spread over multiple domains doesn't mean it gets multiple listings.

So long as German speakers land on .at and English speakers land on .com, I don't really mind how it is organised. That is the real reason for the split.

Although we try to help people with technical mumbo jumbo here sometimes, in terms of the way editors view sites, it's not really too important how the back end works. What matters is how the surfer sees the site when they visit with a browser.

For sites with content in multiple languages we would strongly prefer to list the same URL in all languages. sfowler, I don't understand your reasoning for completely segregating the content, but I can say that many large and successful entities have decided to make a single front page and have alternate languages available from that.

When SEO stands in the way of useability it's a shame in my view. If Google ever starts giving out penalties for alternate language links, it will be time to use a different search engine, IMO.

Whenever I visit the IBM website, for example, I always go to ibm.com and then click through to their UK content (they provide a menu option) whether that be in a separate folder on the same server, or in a subdomain of it, or on a completely separate domain is irrelevant, and I'm not sure if I could even tell you which method they actually use.

I understand what you are saying, and my reasons are not really SEO, but useability. To cater for our local market we need the entry page in German. A lot of my customers speak no English at all, and will immediately click away from a page in English. The local directories will also refuse to list it. English speakers will do the same when they land on a site in a foreign language, since they generally speak nothing else. We have heard these comments too often to ignore them. I have also had the issue with some other directories which refuse a submission on the basis that the first page is not in English. Sometimes you just have to pay attention to your customers. What would a British plumber do if he landed on a page in German?

Understood. We've told you what's convenient for us; but don't interpret that as implying "we won't list the site any other way." Do what you have to do, and we'll work with it -- editors in each language will look for the simplest URL that works for them.

(But I would strongly suggest a link between the .at and the .com home pages at least: not for us but for the convenience of your visitors who somehow end up on the wrong page anyway.)

We have decided to link every page individually for ease of use. The single link at the home page proved inconvenient for some people. Thank you for your opinions, they have given me a few points to consider.

As a searcher, I much prefer the structure of a main site with flags for other languages.

As a web developer, I use only hosting companies that allow me to assign third level domains.

Using both of the above, you can then have http://www.mysite.com in DMOZ, then additional functionality sites as: http://english.mysite.com http://french.mysite.com http://spanish.mysite.com and so on.

It works out nicely for everyone {IMHO}.

/*tom*/