the new ODP

i'd just like to comment about how i like the new ODP. before, when the many major search engines used ODP data, the ODP community was largely arrogant and rude - thinking that they held the keys to something everyone needed.

now that that bubble has burst, i like how humble everyone has become. i like that now we are with the ODP just to make the ODP great - without care if we're making the internet a better place to surf (because, let's face it, few users see our data these days).

we're making a great database for ourselves - and we're the ones we need to please.

i do admit, though, i miss the days when everyone thought the ODP was sooooooo important, and that ODP editors were cool.

[No Flames Please]

hahah haha hahh aha ha hha ha hhahhah ahhaha h ahah hah

Huh? Since when was everyone arrogant and rude? In what ways did you interact with ODP Editors?

And many major search engines still do use ODP data, including Netscape, AOL, and Google. Google I consider to be the most relevant search engine and given the heavy weight it seems to add to ODP results implies that a lot of this is due to a good ODP.

I definitely agree that the ODP makes the Internet a better place.

So this is why all those ex-editors wanted a public ODP forum! I get it now. /images/dmoz/purplegrin.gif

just watching as your popularity slips through your fingers.

where is the ODP without its validation as a primary source for search results on at least ONE major engine... exactly where it is... no where.

but don't tell this to the editors - you all still believe DMOZ stands for something.

karma is a [censored]!

>> where is the ODP without its validation as a primary source for search results on at least ONE major engine... exactly where it is... no where. <<

Actually, that would be Google. /images/icons/smile.gif

>>but don't tell this to the editors - you all still believe DMOZ stands for something

Well, I actually do believe ODP stands for something. Several major SEs use its data, and hundreds of minor ones, including national/local ones and vortals do as well, either through the RDF dump or live fetching.

There is also a great number of webmasters who think that being listed in ODP is vital for their site/s, looking at the growing number of submissions we get. And the growing number of people applying to become an editor is very telling about the "popularity" of this community.

Sure, there are many webmasters who are unsatisfied and complained in all known Boards all over the Web about how ODP editors managed the submission process, or how new editors are accepted. This Forum has been set up with the aim of bringing the ODP Community closer to the public (data users, submitters/webmasters, people willing to know more about what's ODP and which are our goals and ideals). This is actually a major step in the evolution of our Community: somebody will understand it, appreciate this opportunity to have direct contact with ODP editors, and use this board for the very purpose it has been set up. Somebody will think that it's just another place to play the "shoot the ODP" game.

Constructive criticism is therefore welcomed, as well as complaints which will help us improving our submission process and overall quality. Flaming and non-constructive bashing is not. We need more editors, good ones, and we need to continue evolving while the Web evolves to be always in a position to serve as the most complete and comprehensive directory of the Web, which is and will always be our goal.

Scott2121, if you think you have something constructive to say, you are welcomed. If you just think that DMOZ stands for nothing, and/or this Forum is not useful for you, I guess that's nothing we can do here for you /images/icons/smile.gif

Hi rjmendel:

>> And many major search engines still do use ODP data, including Netscape, AOL, and Google. Google I consider to be the most relevant search engine and given the heavy weight it seems to add to ODP results implies that a lot of this is due to a good ODP.

Sorry, but AOL seems to be serving Inktomi results these days, and while Google does base its directory on them, ODP results are not served in the search engine. As for Netscape being a major search engine.............???

Hi Ettore:
>>>We need more editors, good ones,

Pardon me, but that is the nub of the problem it seems to me. Forget that I have been rejected without so much as a reply three times, but I know of at least ten well qualified individuals, (including one who is the most erudite, honest and helpful individual I know) and all have been rejected more than once as editors.

I understand the necessity to get the cream of the crop if you are to improve the index, but given the criticism regarding the long delays in listing and the mangled descriptions, perhaps the editor selection process could be revamped to bring it more in line with public expectations.

<< and while Google does base its directory on them, ODP results are not served in the search engine. As for Netscape being a major search engine.............???>>

Netscape may not be a major search engine in your opinion but I think all new Netscape users will have it set as their homepage so I think it can be counted as one of the major portals on the internet.
As for google, if you type in a term, google will often bring related categories back in one of the first lines before the major results. So yes, google do intergrate ODP in search results. (Never mind the fact that I would not have known of ODP was it not for google having it as a button on their website. :/images/dmoz/purplegrin.gif )

<<mangled descriptions>>
We don't do mangled descriptions. A certain other major directory do do mangled descriptions; we don't. We edit descriptions. You have to remember that although we want to serve submitters and users alike, we do edit descriptions so that they are readable and useful for users. Submitters do need to accept that we have a responsibility to rewrite descriptions if they don't meet our directory and/or major category guidelines.

<< criticism regarding the long delays in listing>>
This is partly because we want to create the best directory possible... because of abuse and other problems, you don't always see this but we are in a process of continuous improvement here at ODP. Although, in a perfect world, we would spend all our time posting sites to the directory, this often isn't the case. Discussing major changes in organisation, fixing spelling mistakes, linking categories together, making guidelines for categories(sometimes public and sometimes editor-only) take up a lot of time. The other reason for not reviewing your sites fast is that we have lots of other sites that need to be reviewed including sadly, submissions that take time to work out whether to list or not like spam etc. It is also possible that your site has been rejected; we don't promise to inform you of this. Not all sites will get listed because our focus is on quality not quantity.

David Pendray

Hi Dpen2000:

Well, at present Netscape gets only 1.15% of all searches, so I have a hard time calling it a major directory.

My website is also listed in Google search results every now and then, but just like DMOZ that is the result of Googles normal spidering and ranking process.

Hi All;

Let me clear the air a bit, in spite of what you may be thinking I am not one of those individuals with an axe to grind against DMOZ's nose. I have put many sites into DMOZ and many, if not most of them rank very well (including several #1 ranks) and I am aware that Google does seem to give a bit of a better PR to links from DMOZ than other sites.

Its just that DMOZ could be even bigger and better, but there seems to be this air of suspicion that those who volunteer to help are only doing so for ulterior motives.

I fully expect the standard reply, bigger is not necessarily better, but that is the name of the game. If you don't list the majority of the good sites out there (and I know there is some question who has the right to determine good) then those who search at your site are being shortchanged, as are those who use your results.

<<Its just that DMOZ could be even bigger and better, but there seems to be this air of suspicion that those who volunteer to help are only doing so for ulterior motives. >>

You would be surprised to see how many people thought the same way before getting accepted as an editor themselves and then changed their opinion when they saw the "other side" of things! /images/icons/wink.gif

>>>...and then changed their opinion when they saw the "other side" of things!

the "other side" is an anti-social community where the only motivation for participation is in 'earning' enough 'status' to wield some weird sense of power over other members - under the guise of helping to make the internet a great place to surf for all. it's a farce, and the best part is that most of you are in denial about it

oh oh oh google google gooogle - look how great the ODP is. HA!

what comes around is going around, and the ODP is going down.

wow, the vocal minority is out and about again i see.

here is some good news though. many (most even) of us simply want to create a good directory and don't care who uses it. if you find it useful, use it. if not, go away. no big deal.

or you may troll if you fel the need. /images/icons/wink.gif

LOL some people can be very funny here. I won't add any comment since it's quite obvious that such a discussion will not bring anything constructive that could be useful to the readers of this thread.

scott2121:

I thank you for your.. uhmm... insightful comments, and while I don't agree with your statements, I am willing to respect your opinion.

Given that you consider the whole ODP a farce, and I suppose this forum, too, I kindly ask you to refrain from keeping such an attitude in your posts, and participating here if you have nothing to add to this discussion.

Flaming is not allowed here. Constructive criticism is welcomed, but I'm sorry I don't see anything constructive in your last posts.

Thank you for understanding.

>>>or you may troll if you feel the need.

"troll" the ultimate insult to quiet the vocal minority. i'd expect more from somone who spent so many years doing charity work for corporations, except that i don't.

i bet you were a GoGuide too.

how can one be constructive to a group that is so deeply in denial about their intentions that they beleive that are actually selflessly motivated.

if the only criticism you take is constructive, how can you tell the difference?

>>how can one be constructive

If someone can't be constructive, I don't see a reason for participating in this discussion, other than testing to which point he can get before getting banned. Somewhat childish, I dare say, Mr. Faber...

>>if the only criticism you take is constructive

We do like constructive criticism, both from the inside and from the outside (which is one of the reasons this Forum has been set up), since it will be taken into consideration, and will help us improving the quality and the usefulness of the directory. Non-constructive criticism is not useful, both for us and for others surfing on these threads.

If you like something, ask us questions about how to use it in a better way.
If you don't like something, tell us what you don't like and why, suggesting improvements
If you don't like anithing, you think all this is a farce, and you have nothing to add, I don't see why you are here.

>>how can you tell the difference

Oh, I guess that the difference is very clear, not only to us editors, but to the public surfing on this thread, too. Of course, a minimum of intelligence is needed to spread light in the dark, but I am sure that 99,9% of people reading this thread have this capability. Now, about that 0,1%...