Thoughts on the application process

P

photomark

I'm trying to crack the clique and become an editor but it strikes me as a closed shop! Let me set the scene; I'm trying to be an editor for the 'photojournalism/music photography' category, a specialist subject concerned primarily with live concert photography and 'promo' shots.
I have both the experience and knowledge to successfully regenerate the category from a stagnant 40 or so random entries into a vibrant resource providing all the links you'd ever need if you were searching the web for music photography. On the internet side, I joined eBay UK in 1999 and worked for 12 months as their Special Events Manager. I also helped test Fotango.com before the full launch. In other words, I know and understand the net. The rest of my life has been spent working as a concert promoter, a job I returned to after I left eBay. In the course of my work, I get to meet a lot of music photographers and I'm sufficiently interested in their work to have gained a reasonable knowledge of the UK scene.
My interest in the ODP came when a music photographer friend submitted her site but it was never listed. I felt that perhaps the editors of the category had lost interest, especially as the current links aren't particularly informed, and that I ought to apply as it was something I could easily excel at.
Initially, I was rejected 'by mistake'. My 'interviewer' was happy to admit pilot error but was unable to re-process the application and suggested I just re-apply. Since then, I have been rejected twice by auto-response messages, once under the original user name and a second time using a different log in.
I'm interested in thoughts on this. Is the application process flawed? Has my initial rejection gone against me? Probably not because it was impossible to link this with my third attempt under a new log-in. Is the ODP a closed shop run by graduates who want to keep it to themselves? Or is the whole concept of self-regulation flawed and the ODP untenable? Maybe you can spot an error in my application? Perhaps I am over qualified? Maybe my objective one-line reviews were just a little too knowledgeable and foul play was suspected? But then I don't need Steve Gullick to list his CV on his site, he is sufficiently well known for me to inform users that he started out at Sounds magazine and has gone on to be the personal photographer of many big stars such as the Prodigy. Maybe the sites I suggested were deemed by a layman to be 'inappropriate'? I don't think so, they were just some of the glaring errors I noticed whilst browsing. Perhaps I'm just 'unlucky'?
Whatever your thoughts on the above, the truth remains that the 'photojournalism/music photography' category needs me whilst it currently does nothing other than stagnate and I'm powerless to act. I'd say the ODP isn't just failing me but is failing itself and its so-called 'Social Contract'. HUMANS do it better? I don't think so!
 

brmehlman

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Sampling the other threads in this forum, I see quite a few where the original poster is now an editor. That doesn't seem to support the "closed shop" hypothesis.
 

pvgool

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Curlie Meta
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I have been rejected twice by auto-response messages
I'm no Meta edtior so I'm not allowed to review new editors. But I can tell you one thing. There are no auto rejects. Always a human is reviewing your application. But they have some standard mails for rejections (as most rejections are for the same reasons).
The possible reason is amongst the list they send you.
The only thing I can advice you is to look at that list, reread the guidelines. And, try again.
 

giz

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May 26, 2002
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3,112
Did you keep a copy of your original application?

Paste it here for a critique.
 
P

photomark

It has been slightly different each time. Give me 10 minutes and I'll paste one here...
Thanks for the offer!
 
P

photomark

Same message each time! And no comments filled in at the bottom. The original reviewer didn't mean to ject me and I accepted that but it has been uphill since...
 

bobrat

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Apr 15, 2003
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I used to complain [very mildly] in an SEO forum about DMOZ. After someone corrected some of my false assumptions about ODP, I decided to become an editor, and see what was really happening. [I for sure wanted to get a new site in, the rest of my sites had managed to get in one way or another]

I have no background in writing or preparing copy. I generally hate that kind of stuff, I don't write ads, I've no idea how to promote stuff, I'm a bad typist and constaly inrert lerters. :p

I chose a category I had a personal interest in, not one any of my sites would fit into. I read the guidelines, I read the posts, I probably spent about six hours putting my editor application together - choosing sites, writing and rewriting descriptions and it was accepted in less than a day.

I mention this, because when I put together the site descriptions, etc. - I followed the rules. Your problem may be that you have way more experience in editing than I, but your are doing promotional editing, not ODP editing.


'photojournalism/music photography' category needs me

No - 'photojournalism/music photography' category needs a good ODP editor - but there is no reason that it could not be you
 
P

photomark

A sample of my application:

What is your Internet experience? I worked as Special Events Manager for eBay UK. Highlight of my career was the profile auction of Margaret Thatcher's handbag to promote the launch of Handbag.com.
Tester for Fotango.com


Why are you interested in volunteering to be an editor for the ODP? The category I am applying for seems to have stagnated. I'm excited about the prospect of using my knowledge to build the ODP and assist others in their search for music photographers

Explain your interest in the subject of the category for which  you are applying to edit: For over 12 years I have been a concert promoter. As such, I am in close contact with many music photographers and I enjoy viewing their work.

3 sample sites:
http://www.iantilton.com
Established UK photographer mostly known for his Kurt Cobain image. Offers framed prints of a selection of his work

http://www.gullickphoto.com
The web presence of Steve Gullick, a renowned photographer who started at Sounds magazine and has gone on to be personal photographer for many big name acts

http://www.theworks-arp.com/concerts.html
The portfolio of Amanda Rose, a London based photographer, featuring shots mostly taken at Brixton Academy where she is house photographer
 
P

photomark

Your problem may be that you have way more experience in editing than I, but your are doing promotional editing, not ODP editing.

I have nothing to gain by this. I know two photographers personally, the rest I know by reputation. None of my sample sites have had any link to me. If enthusiasm and knowledge is misinterpreted as promotion then I'm doomed!!!
We're talking about 3 rejections here!!!
 

bobrat

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Messages
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You also need to add titles for the three sites [application rejected :p ]
 
P

photomark

You also need to add titles for the three sites [application rejected ]

Title omitted for speed as I didn't expect Giz to hang around forever!!!! Needless to say, the titles of each site were correctly entered on my application form!!
(I assume you are being light-hearted here?)
 

bobrat

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I'm always light hearted - sometimes people don't get my humour - but seriously - bad titles can easily mess things up, so you should consider posting them.

[I'm only an editor with no special privileges - I have no say in approving editor applications - just trying to be helpful here]
 
P

photomark

The titles are simply lifted from each site (it is surely not the responsibility of an editor to change a badly titled site??)

They are:
Ian Tilton - Photographer
Gullickphoto.com
Amanda Rose Photography

Trust me - these were not omitted on any original application!!

Wonder if Giz has gone away...????
 

totalxsive

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Mar 25, 2002
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Well, the first title probably shouldn't have the 'Photographer' bit added - if it's in a photography category, we'd assume he was a photographer. "Amanda Rose Photography" should be fine though. Basically the title should be the title of the site/page/article in question, so you were right in thinking that.

I'm assuming in your application that you put full stops at the end of your sentences?

Also, the descriptions don't really describe what is actually on the site - a portfolio? a biography? selection of links to related sites? Put it in the description.

Finally you probably don't need to repeat 'Amanda Rose' in the description if it's already in the title.
 

bobrat

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Apr 15, 2003
Messages
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Even if the sites were not in a photography category [where we would try not to repeat use the word photgrapher], #2 and #3 use the word photographer twice.

#1 uses the word Established #2 the word renowned - some would consider these as value judgements to be avoided - not as bad as saying "The best photographer in London", but maybe not. You may know them, and in fact they may be renowned, but if I was editing, I'd leave the word out.
 

steveb

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Oct 30, 2002
Messages
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The category has over 100 sites in it, and if you would check around to the various guidelines and suggestions you will see that you should aim your sights lower for a starter category. While exceptions can occur, it's not good practice to assume you can be an exception.

Look for a category with less than 100 listed sights, even better a couple dozen sites, apply there, and then after editing for awhile you can apply to this bigger category. If nothing else interests you, find a smallish category for your hometown and start there.
 
P

photomark

Also, the descriptions don't really describe what is actually on the site - a portfolio? a biography? selection of links to related sites? Put it in the description.

OK, this helps! ODP would be looking for this instead:

Gullickphoto.com
The web presence of Steve Gullick, featuring extensive portfilio, links to affiliated bands and labels and information on published works.


Personally, I would find it bizarre to have to refrain from calling Steve Gullick 'renowned' as he is world famous. You'd assume anyone browsing this category would either be aware of him or be happy to informed of his status. However, I'm happy to play by the rules! ;-)

There are some good points coming out now. Perhaps these types of examples would be better off in the 'guidelines' document? I'm feeling confident on a 4th attempt, although I'm feeling robbed that the reviewers couldn't bring it on themselves to mention why the application had failed.
 
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