Thoughts on the application process

I can understand that, it's like leaving out that word for an Ansel Adams web site in Photography: Landscape.

Also, "web presence" is redundant - also words like website - since almost everything in ODP is a website. And you still have "extensive" - once you get used to it it gets easier.

OK...

We aren't Google.
http://dmoz.org/News/Media/Journalism/Photojournalism/Music_Photography/

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I wondered why I thought I previously seen this page with a different layout! That might sound quite thick but I genuinely thought Google & ODP were linked beyond Google referencing the ODP. The ODP links at the bottom of the page are confusing!!

The Google & ODP directories are very similar and both are still missing any big names. I still stand by my original comments even though I had based them on the wrong listing.

And you still have "extensive"

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Now I'm intrigued!! Why can't I describe his portfolio as 'extensive' when there's pages of it?

Google uses DMOZ data (eventually, on their own schedule). Dmoz pages eventually show on Google, that is why the pages are very similar.

Regardless, if that category needs work and you would like to work on it, a good idea would be for you to apply to a smaller, "get your feet wet" category so you can earn the privilege of editing this large one.

Regardless, if that category needs work and you would like to work on it, a good idea would be for you to apply to a smaller, "get your feet wet" category so you can earn the privilege of editing this large one.

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Now this, I don't understand. Why volunteer for a category I know little about and don't care for with the ulterior motive of editing the one I have my eye on? Hope does that help the ODP to have the best person available involved in each category? This is starting to reinforce my original view of a closed shop, especially as I detect a slight 'us & them' in the posts although I am very glad people are taking time out to assist me (and hopefully others). Nothing personal everybody!!

Although I suggested you post your application, I didn't intend to actually give a review of your application myself.

I just asked the question so that by the time you posted, someone with more experience would see you post your application, and dive in and offer comments.

My two:

"extensive" is a word that is "promotional hype" and we don't do that.

Your descriptions are almost "editorialising". The ODP usually writes fairly neutral or bland descriptions, and strives to NOT make one site listing stand out against others (that is editor bias). It is probably a different world to the one that you might have expected to see. If you start saying "extensive" then another site with MORE pages is going to complain that you didn't say that their site was extensive too; or might want you to use a bigger adjective to describe their site. We try to avoid that stuff.

The reson that people are asked to start in small categories is to gain experience of editing, demonstrate a good job, and then ask for promotion to a bigger job. New editors aren't let loose in a big category as they could do a lot of damage in a very short time. A trainee potter isn't let loose in the massive bone china warehouse on the first day. Most people could edit in almost any category if that were the only thing though. You simply look at sites and write a title and description for them. Some other areas are denied to new editors as they are spam magnets and it needs a lot of previous editing experience to be able to spot the devious stuff. Remember that the people who review your application don't really know who you are. They review what is in your application, and if you seem to have potential you will be sucessful. However, most editors start at the ground floor to begin with.

Thanks Giz - some good comments there!! This is all very useful.
I would agree that the guidelines are slightly different to the world I imagined!!!

Why volunteer for a category I know little about and don't care for with the ulterior motive of editing the one I have my eye on?

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To learn the ins and outs of being an ODP editor in a smaller space where you can do less damage You can move on to bigger and better things once you show us that you know what you're doing. It doesn't take long to get to that second category.

Did you look at the FAQ and General Advice thread in this forum? There is a lot of valuable info there about the hows and whys of filling out the application.

You mentioned that we should have some examples in the Guidelines. It is something that we have talked about, but it's really difficult to give examples that don't curb creativity. We don't want all editors to create cookie cutter descriptions and that tends to happen when you put something like that in writing. Everyone has their own style. We have suggestions in the Guidelines about what we would like to see in the descriptions, and that's all that we ask.

There is no secret society. ODP editors come from every walk of life. Please read through some of the information in that FAQ thread, find an appropriate category and send in your application.

We're waiting for you

Why volunteer for a category I know little about and don't care for

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Why not apply for the photographers subcategory? It still has under 100 sites, and it appears to be a category in which you have a high interest.

Let's not write his application for him, shall we? I would accept him to a 125-site category+subcategory if his app was acceptable (no, it does NOT have to be perfect -- and spending 6 hours on it seems a tad long to me). He shouldn't have much trouble applying for the subcategory mentioned earlier in any case. It wouldn't take a whole lot of good editing to get to edit the whole category if he applied for it later.

We want to promote good editors but it would be in your control. If/when you can demonstrate that you've learned enough of your craft, further categories can come rapidly.

What do I mean by rapidly? Most new permission requests are responded to within a few days and it can be a few minutes.

Some people move on to a new categories in a matter of weeks, others many months. It depends on how good the results of your initial edits are. Look on it as promotion.

Two people start out as junior apprentices in some factory. Twenty years later one of them is still sweeping the floor and the other is now the MD/CEO. Ya never can tell.

There are very rough internal guidelines for when it's reasonable to start asking for another category: the number of edits you've done are compared to the size of that category. I asked for my second category within a week -- was turned down, of course, because I proposed to nuke it. But within the month I had a couple of categories and a few hundred edits, which is what it took to get 50 listings right... THEN they let me nuke that other cat. Now the SECOND cat I wanted to nuke took ten months of browb...um, negotiations.

Some editors accumulate ~2,000 edits a month; some of those are being considered for editall within 6 months. This isn't the military: there's no "promote or die" mentality, new category grants are simply correlated to interest (which, we know, drifts) and activity (which, we know, waxes and wanes -- some meta-editors have timed out, then later returned to activity.)

Don't think in terms of calendar time. Think in terms of learning curves (which are different for each person) and productive-monitor-hours.

Let's not write his application for him, shall we?

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You know, it's comments like this that are making it hard for me to believe that you're not a 'closed shop' or 'secret society'. I felt the guidelines weren't specific enough to enable me to adopt the style required just by reading them. I appreciate the 'cookie cutter' comment but seriously... no-one is 'writing my application', I am perfectly capable of adopting any style of writing once that style has been clearly demonstrated to me. Personally, I think this whole thread has been very helpful, hopefully not only to myself but to others too. Don't shy away from helping people by imagining that they're copying your homework!

Incidentally, the current 'cool' site in the music photographer category is Jim Marshall and that site is not active at the moment!!!!

I am perfectly capable of adopting any style of writing once that style has been clearly demonstrated to me

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[Sounds a lot to me like writing something for you, but you get to substitute word B for word A.]

Many styles are appropriate for editing as long as you aren't hyping the copy, keyword stuffing, or mangling the English language. As for what _content_ we want, please tersely describe the highlights of what will be found on the site as well as what the site is about.

photomark:

If you decide to reapply, please make sure that you fill all the fields of the application.

Leaving the affiliation field blank won't help, nor lying about the lack of your affiliation. Furthermore, when pasting the content of your application here for the public's review, it would be cool to paste it entirely, so that everybody can notice if an important part of it (like the affiliation field) was left empty or not.

Also, please note that failure to specify affiliation may lead to the removal of any editorial account.