Unique content? for jewelry?

Hello,
I just registered.
I've submitted my site a few times already and the last one was about 4 weeks ago.
I don't know what is happening.
I don't know the status.
I don't know who is the editor, because at the time there was no editor.
I don't know how to contact whoever is editing.
I don't know why we are not able to check the status and to know the status.

IMHO, the whole procedure at dmoz is very outdated and extremely unreliable and ineffective.
I checked a few websites with gemstone jewelry which are listed, and I not only can't find any "unique content" but I can't see why these sites are listed.
Because the jewelry is far far far from being "unique". It's primitive, simple, basic.
It beads on a string. That's all. No design, no creativity.
So, when I submit my site(it's actually my wife's designs) with trully unique,creative and beautiful designs and after a while I don't see it accepted, but sites with basic simplistic designs do get accepted,
I wonder, HOW this happens?
Is it editor's incompetence ? or what ???

Here is my site: <url removed>

I can list here at least 10 websites from shopping:crafts:jewelry:gemstones with designs that shouldn't be here, because there are so many many really sophisticated gemstone jewelry that deserve to be here.

Thank you.

You'll likely find the answers to many of those questions in this forum's FAQ.

Unique doesn't mean good, eye catching or sophisticated. It means that the content can't be found elsewhere.

I don't know the status.

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And unfortunately we can't help you with that here.

I don't know why we are not able to check the status and to know the status.

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Our FAQ here covers those questions.

IMHO, the whole procedure at dmoz is very outdated and extremely unreliable and ineffective.

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Our "procedure" is very simple. We allow you to suggest your site to us and we very clearly state on the suggestion form that we do not guarantee a listing at all, let alone a timely one.

Because the jewelry is far far far from being "unique". It's primitive, simple, basic.

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I think perhaps you misunderstand the concept of unique as it is used by the ODP. It's not the design of the jewelry, it's the content of the web site. If someone is making and selling their own simply-designed jewelry, they're no less deserving of a listing than someone making and selling sophisticated items.

I can list here at least 10 websites from shopping:crafts:jewelry:gemstones with designs that shouldn't be here, because there are so many many really sophisticated gemstone jewelry that deserve to be here.

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As I noted above, the category isn't for sophisticated gemstone jewelry (it's for gemstone jewelry, period) and the presence of simple jewelry sites in the category does not prevent other sites from being listed.

You'll find that "jewelry" is one of the most spam-ridden categories -- there are millions of sites that are merely order-takers with false names and addresses -- they take orders, then turn them over to the same few actual businesses (who have such obnoxious reputations among customers that they can't afford to let their actual identity slip out.)

The regrettable result is that genuinely unique small businesses such as you describe have an extremely difficult time getting through the muck to get to the surfer (whether a customer or a volunteer site reviewer).

And, of course, the spammers clog up the ODP submittal process as well: fortunately, editors aren't forced to process submittals at all, let alone in order, -- we can still pick the best way to find good unique content -- so the damage is minimized. But "minimized" doesn't mean "minimal". All the world's economy is dragged down by these mendacious spammers pretending to be real businesses -- and yes, both you and the ODP are harmed.

That's life in an anarchy. The only thing that could possibly be worse would be .... regulation.

I understand that "unique" means unique content.
But unique content can be the unique jewelry by itself.
Because "content" is everything on the website.
So, when I was checking these at least 10 sites of simple jewelry, I was really surprised to find them here. Because their simple jewelry is their content. There is absolutely nothing "unique" there.
What they do have "unique" is their overall website's design.
So, when the editor enters their website, the first impression is...O!..looks nice!...
So, here the editor got the first and important impression of the website, which is FALSE. The editor immediately associated his/her first impression with "uniqueness" based on design and structure of the WEBSITE, not on the PRODUCT.
I know that from my personal experience, and you're aware of that as well.
Nice and smooth design attracts, despite of the inferior product.
Every single website that I mentioned("at least 10") has this false impact.
But their products are childish and basic.
There is a lot of colors around, flash,...etc...everything to distract attention from unattractive product.
I suggest to pay more attention to the Product and to spend more time on these websites to understand and to find the "uniquenesss".
My website is not flashy, doesn't have a lot of color around.
The reason - not to distract attention from the product. Because our jewelry by itself is reach in colors.
My objective is real and true - to present our product, our jewelry, which is true artistic creation, in the best possible condition. I'm not hiding behind carnival of colors, lines, flash...etc.

Another concept of "content" is textual content. From this perspective I haven't found nothing unique either on the mentioned websites.

I have this textual content, probably more than any of these websites.
My guess is, that the editor doesn't bother to spend on a website more than a minute. Am I right ?

So, if some of you moderators curious, what I'm talking about, go there and check first 20 websites. Spend a little time looking at the jewelry, not at the colors and lines around.

Thank you.

Please read Hutcheson's post again. It has a lot of very good information.



As for reviewing sites, I have spent several hours just looking at a single site, researching its background, looking at other related sites for clues, before deciding whether to list or delete something; and many other editors have done the same too.

But their products are childish and basic.

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You really need to read what Motsa wrote again.

I think perhaps you misunderstand the concept of unique as it is used by the ODP. It's not the design of the jewelry, it's the content of the web site. If someone is making and selling their own simply-designed jewelry, they're no less deserving of a listing than someone making and selling sophisticated items.

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Also remember we are discussing

Shopping: Crafts: Jewelry: Gemstone

Gemstone jewelry made and sold by individual crafters.

as compared with

Shopping: Jewelry

This category is for sites selling jewelry and jewelry products at retail prices to the general public.

Please note related category links for jewelry manufacturers, jewelry wholesalers and non-shopping jewelry sites.

old_crone said:

You really need to read what Motsa wrote again.

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I've read it. I understand that and know how SE operate and how Google rating system works...
I know what Motsa meant by content.

What I was trying to say was, that content of my website combined with the sophisticated designs present no less and even better value to ODP than those sites that I refered to, which has same or less content than mine and have simple designs.

And I honestly look at these websites from editors' point of view and my experience as a gemstone jewelry creator - I don't see much valueable content there.

Here is for example, some of the content on my website, other than designs:

listing of gemstones,
story about each gemstone,
folklore and believes related to many gemstones,
birthstones - their history and meanings.

Isn't that enough for content ?
I don't think other sites have more similar content than mine.
If you spend on each submitted website a couple of hours(which I think a little too much to determine its usefulness..) then you're probably a honnest editor.
But from my experience, after submitting third time now, I'm very sceptical in other gemstone jewelry editors' true understanding in ODP requirements.

Someone who is in silver/gold jewelry should not judge gemstone jewelry.
Someone who is in wired jewelry shouldn't and can not judge gemstone jewelry
Someone who is metal jewelry...applies the same....

So, I think ODP has a problem deciding editor's applications in these fields.
WHO decides?
The one who decides for gemstone jewelry, is he/she specializes in gemstone jewelry ?... do you undertsand what I mean ?
There are serious flaws in the process of accepting editors in this field and others as well, I think.

I also think, like I mentioned before, that the whole process at ODP is underdeveloped.

Bobrat, yes, I'm refering Shopping:Crafts:Jewelry:Gemstones
I mentioned that in my first post.

Thank you

The ODP editors do not judge the jewelry, or any product for that matter. The website doesn't contain the jewelry. It contains information about the jewelry, who made it, who sells it, etc. Editors judge the sites content, period and do not need to have any knowledge of gemstones in order to do what is required when reviewing a website.

Only meta editors review new editor application.

old_crone said:

The ODP editors do not judge the jewelry, or any product for that matter. The website doesn't contain the jewelry. It contains information about the jewelry, who made it, who sells it, etc. Editors judge the sites content, period and do not need to have any knowledge of gemstones in order to do what is required when reviewing a website.

Only meta editors review new editor application.

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ok, then ODP interpretation of "content" is very different.
You're talking about "content", not about "unique content".
So, now we have two versions.
IMHO, the requirements of ODP are not clear at all, at least in regard to Crafts>Jewelry>Gemstones
My site has both, "unique content" and "content" you're talking about(information about jewelry, who makes,who sells,...etc) plus the Real content,plus unique designs, and it still doesn't get listed.

My understanding is that ODP's objective is to have quality websites.
From my point of view, ODP doesn't have a clear definition and requirements for "quality website" in this category.
As I said, 50% of websites in this category are not quality websites.
And obviously, you can't decide what website deserves to be called Quality website.

"Content" doesn't = Quality. "Unique Real Content" does = Quality.
ODP is using the first formula.

Where is logic ?

My suggestion, please review seriously the mentioned category.

A site doesn't get listed without a review. The problem, for a site such as you describe, is not that it isn't listed -- it is that it is competing with many sites for review, and how is the editor to know which ones are worth reviewing for a listing--before they are reviewed? If a listable site is reviewed, it can be listed immediately, even though it is just barely listable.

If "quality" has any meaning at all, it can only mean "the site does what its webmaster wants it to do." Which doesn't and oughtn't mean anything at all to the editor -- OUR only question is, "does the site contain significant unique content?"

What you want, of course, is some way for editors to spot the "especially listable" sites first. Unfortunately, there is no way other than trained editor noses. And that is a fundamental fact of nature: it may not be obvious to a non-programmer, but an automatic way is impossible. (THAT'S logic, as taught in graduate-level theoretical computer science courses!)

ODP Fails its Principle:lists websites without Quality Unique Content

what do you mean by "listable site" can be listed immediately" ?

Now I can see that every editor has a different understanding of "unique content".
General concept of the meaning "unique content" - something of value to a visitor of the website, something Unusual, that can not be found anywhere else.
The definition of "UNIQUE" according to every english dictionary:
Radically distinctive and without equal

Editor of jewelry category that has no understanding in gemstones, have no ability and have no right to judge which website with Handcrafted(not imported or resale) gemstone jewelry is Unique.
Unfortunately the way ODP works in this category and others I assume as well, it fails to recognize True Quality Unique content.
The proof is simple: this category has NO EDITOR.
The bottom of the page has an invitation to become an editor of this category.
So, who is deciding who is in and who is out ? Probably somebody from a neighboring category.

So, this is a problem with ODP. ODP FAILS to recognize and list Quality websites with True Unique content. I guess you agree with this statement.
But the worst is, that ODP lists websites that have NO unique content.
There are two reasons for this, as I mentioned previously:

1. website with a lot of colors and unique design makes first and false impression on an editor, creating an illusion of "uniqueness", without having "unique content" at all.
2. lack of Qualified editors in certain categories, who have ability to reconize Real "Unique Content"

I think ODP has to Re-evaluate their judging system and the rules for deciding WHO is a qualified Editor for every category and sub-category.

The current system is based on very old rules created 7-8 years ago. Isn't it?
It was back in 20th century!
7-8 years is a very long time in the Internet development.
You Must to RE-EVALUATE and CHANGE your systems and make it EFFICIENT.
Current system is too old and doesn't do what it supposed to do.

ODP FAILS to recognize and list Quality websites with True Unique content. I guess you agree with this statement.

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Why on earth would we devote our free time to this project if we agreed with that statement? If that were largely true, there would be no point in what we do! (I don't deny that it can be true in some cases, but that's a different thing.)

The current system is based on very old rules created 7-8 years ago. Isn't it?

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I'm not sure whether you are talking about the system for accepting editors or for listing sites in the directory, but the answer is the same in both cases:
The current system has been refined and re-defined many times since the directory was started. It is certainly not the same now as it was then.

You are being rather insulting to our editors, you know, by assuming that they can't judge unique content, just because your definition of "unique" doesn't agree with ours. You are choosing one of the dictionary definitions. We focus on another one: the single one of its kind. Unless you understand and accept that -- even if you don't agree -- we'll be talking past one another.

what do you mean by "listable site" can be listed immediately" ?

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He means that as soon as a site that is deemed listable is reviewed by an editor, it can be added to the directory. It doesn't need to wait to be compared to other unreviewed sites in order that the best of the unreviewed sites be listed first.

Now I can see that every editor has a different understanding of "unique content".

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Actually, no. We all have pretty much the same understanding, it just differs from what you think it should be.

Editor of jewelry category that has no understanding in gemstones, have no ability and have no right to judge which website with Handcrafted(not imported or resale) gemstone jewelry is Unique.

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You'd be wrong there. Let's face it, jewelry isn't rocket science. Editing the category doesn't require someone with a degree in gemology or 30 years of experience making jewelry. Like most ODP categories, however, it does require someone who understands what constitutes a listable site in that section.

Unfortunately the way ODP works in this category and others I assume as well, it fails to recognize True Quality Unique content. The proof is simple: this category has NO EDITOR.

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I'm not following your logic there. I'm not sure how you make the leap from a lack of a listed editor to it being proof that the ODP doesn't recognize "True Quality Unique content". One has little to do with the other. Of course, your concern isn't really that the content of the category isn't of a suitable calibre, it's that your wife's site isn't listed yet. If it was listed, we likely wouldn't be having this conversation. hutcheson's earlier post (#4) explained why it hasn't been reviewed yet.

So, who is deciding who is in and who is out ? Probably somebody from a neighboring category.

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It would be an editor listed at the Shopping, Shopping/Crafts, or Shopping/Crafts/Jewelry levels or an editall or meta editor.

Your idea of what constitutes unique content doesn't appear to jibe with the ODP's nor does your idea of what constitutes a qualified editor. We've tried to explain things to you here but if you want to continue to labour under your misapprehensions, we can't stop you. We're starting to repeat ourselves here so it's obvious that this discussion has really run its course.

Look at one of the websites that you don't think are unique - now, imagine you want to buy that exact whateveritis that you're looking at. Could you go anywhere else to buy that exact one? The one made by xxx - not the one made by yyy?

That is unique content. Ok so it looks like a five year old made it - it is still unique. You can't find that whateveritis anywhere else but on that person's website.

I'm not insulting nobody.
I'm trying objectively understand how your system works.
From my point of view it doesn't work well.

And you know, I'm glad you mentioned "the single one of a kind"...FINALLY!
I somehow missed this definition for "uniqueness".
So, if the editor really really looked and tried to understand the uniqueness
of gemstone jewelry, ODP would have had a much better collection of Creative jewelry.
Because the definitions "one-of-a-kind", "unique" and "creative" do not apply to about 50% of the handcrafted jewelry listings.
These three definitions DO apply to these Websites' designs, which create an ILLUSION and Distraction for editor's judgement

I'm refering to these two points again:

1. website with a lot of colors and unique design makes first and false impression on an editor, creating an illusion of "uniqueness", without having "unique content" at all.
2. lack of Qualified editors in certain categories, who have ability to reconize Real "Unique Content" and "one of a kind" creations.

If you or somebody else spend 5-10 minutes at: Shopping>Crafts>Jewelry>Gemstones
and isolate the jewelry from surrounding colors, checking 10-15 websites, I'm sure you'll start to understand where are "one of a kind" creations and where are not.
Sure, it's not rocket science to see which designs are trully creative and which are not. Just take a look at some of the sites there and you'll understand what I'm talking about.
And then if you wish to take a look at my website and think, if it deserves to be there or not.

Of course I'm here because of my wife's creations.
Yes, her designs deserve to be listed here.
Our website has more than enough elements to consider having UniqueContent. And the most important of them is the Designs of the jewelry, which are Unique, One of a Kind, exquisite, magnificent and elegant.
Every time I'm surprised that the editor finds my website not suitable.
And I don't get any explanations.
But to see other websites with jewelry that have nothing to do with creativity....yes, this is insulting.
This is the reason I'm here.
I'm finished here.

Thank you

<URL removed>

>And you know, I'm glad you mentioned "the single one of a kind"...FINALLY! I somehow missed this definition for "uniqueness".

That being the STANDARD dictionary definition, I (and, I presume, my fellow editors) felt that by using the word we had adequately expressed the concept.

But, what does that concept mean in the context of a craft?

Each craftsman is "one of a kind." Whatever he does, only he does (whether or not it's imitative, or whether or not it's imitated.) John Doe is the only person who works in John Doe's shop, using John Doe's tools and stock, and John Doe's designs.

That makes John unique.

Now, someone may judge that John is a bit imitative, or perhaps too easily imitated for his wares to be distinctive. Someone else may argue with that judgment. I won't get into that argument.

Because John is unique. He's running his own business, making his OWN judgments. Perhaps he thinks imitative stuff sells better. Perhaps he wants to give his handicapped nephew a leg up in the web design business. Perhaps ... it doesn't matter. That's John's business, not an editor's. The editor's privilege is to say: "Yes, John has a genuine business uniquely providing a set of goods and services. Yes, the website is the single source of authoritative information about that business. Yes, someone can actually order goods and services based solely on information in the website. Ergo, it is listable. My opinion about his creativity, color sense, productivity ... is something I'm not free to express in the ODP listing.

Every time I'm surprised that the editor finds my website not suitable.

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No one has said that your site is unsuitable. Probably no one has reviewed it yet.

Probably no one has reviewed it yet.

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Just to emphasis this point: If you have sumbitted a site which meets our criteria for listing, and has not been listed yet, the reason is almost certainly that none of the volunteer editors has got around to reviewing it yet. Next most likely is that someone did review it and found it was submitted to the wrong category, so sent it on to the unreviewed pool for the right category (where it will wait for review by another editor).