www.nddb.net

vogue777

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Apr 21, 2005
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46
I submitted this site, I think around when I put it up, aug 2004. Still no luck, so I resubmitted it just recently, and if it's being disqualified, I'd at least like to know why so that I can improve it.

I submitted it to : http://www.dmoz.org/Health/Medicine/Directories/Doctors/

Which should be right, as it is a directory of doctors, where people can rate and review their doctor, or find one that has good reviews. It would be nice if it could get listed in dmoz, if anyone has any info or any suggestions, lemme know.

Thanks!
 

vogue777

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Messages
46
Thank you very much for the quick reply. =) I guess I need to be more patient!

Have a good day!
 

vogue777

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Apr 21, 2005
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Just checking back. I see this in my referrer logs : http://editors.dmoz.org/editors/editunrev.cgi

Does this mean an editor has looked at my site? I'm just curious as to when it may appear. Like I said, I first entered it back in August 04. Now I've entered it again maybe... 2-3 weeks ago?

If it's denied, that's fine, just want to know what I need to do to improve it enough to get listed. Thanks!
 

bobrat

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Apr 15, 2003
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Generally ignore logs for editor access. It could mean anything. Just posting a message in this forum, causes many nosy editors to look at your site and none of them are doing any reviews on it.

Since you just posted again, you will probably see some more entries in your logs tomorrow.
 

vogue777

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Apr 21, 2005
Messages
46
Is there any ETA? I mean, I understand it's HUGE and human edited, so it sort of takes as long as it takes. Only so much time a human editor has, but it's been 8 months or so. Wondering if there is any type of time frame? Will it be reviewed in say.. 2 months? Or will it be 8 more months? There's got to be some time frame on reviewing. I don't know who runs my category, and I don't know the submission rate, but the category is very small and hasn't changed in a long period of time... is anyone reviewing it?
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
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Mar 23, 2002
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No, there are no time frames, no deadlines, no priorities, no queues, no estimates.

And the ODP doesn't need them to accomplish its work most efficiently. (Note that in a world of limited resources, "less efficient" is tantamount to "not at all effective".)

The average category probably goes about a year between changes. Longer than that is, therefore, hardly unusual.
 

bobrat

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A very famous editor once compared it to bees, flowers and honey. We know there are a lot of bees, we know they visit flowers. If you watch any particular flower it may never seem to get visited, and you think the bees are not working. But at the end of each day, there is more and more honey.

So we can tell you reliably that each day aproximately x number of sites will be added to the directory, but we cannot tell which ones.

And just like the bee does not know in advance which flower he will visit, the editor that ends up reviewing your site, (and we cannot even predict who that will be), will not himself know in advance when he is going to review it.
 

vogue777

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Apr 21, 2005
Messages
46
I see, and I suppose there's no automated way to say "hey, http://www.nddb.net has been reviewed and we hated it so we aren't including it." Or "hey, your site seems ok, so we'll include it." =)

I can't remember if I provided an email or not, I'm thinking I did?

Thanks again for the info!
 

pvgool

kEditall/kCatmv
Curlie Meta
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Oct 8, 2002
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10,093
No there is no automated way to do that.
 

vogue777

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Apr 21, 2005
Messages
46
One more quick question, would it be a horrible thing to email the editor of this category I want to get into and politely ask them about the status of it? Or for suggestions, whatever?

Just curious if that would be a horrid breach of etiquette or not.

Thanks!
 

bobrat

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Personally, I don't like it when someone sends me an email trying to get me to push their site through faster.

For all you know that editor may be faced with reviewing thousands of sites and your's is just one in the pile.
 

vogue777

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Apr 21, 2005
Messages
46
Since there's no ETA, and no way to automatically check status, and no notification of changes in status, and no rejection/approval notification.

How often can one check the status of a site? For all I know, it could have been rejected yesterday, but then I sit and wait for 6 mos. So how often is too often? =)

EDIT :

Ahh, i see the faq... 6 mos? I see.. :eek: Who do you have to blow around here to get your site looked at? =)
 
W

wrathchild

vogue777 said:
Who do you have to blow around here to get your site looked at? =)
I know you are making a jest, but we take any real or perceived offer of a bribe of any sort very seriously. Please never do it again.

As for the six month rule, that is only for asking for a status check here. We were forced to institute it due to the high volume of requests. It has no bearing whatsoever on when your suggestion is reviewed. It could be tomorrow, it could be next week, it could be next year. We have no way of knowing.

My best advice to you is to simply forget about it. Then, one day, you may be pleasantly surprised to see it listed. If your business model will be made or broken based on an ODP listing you have bigger issues anyway.
 

vogue777

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Apr 21, 2005
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I don't have a business model... heh. It's more about the principle of it. The way DMOZ is run doesn't make sense.

Why is it so hard to have an automated notification system? Every other directory I have ever submitted to has had one. And they are all small, I find it hard to believe DMOZ doesn't have the know-how to do it.

Most other directories also give you an ETA, and actually meet it. Why is it so hard for DMOZ to allot each editor so many sites to review in a given period of time. Not as a hard limit, but as an indicator that more editors might be needed for particular categories.

I mean... is this not common sense? 2 year wait is a bit much.

(Also, it's a figure of speech, heh.)
 

bobrat

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Look in http://resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showforum=18

since the question comes up routinely - and you will find piles threads on this --

Better submission status and an queue system
Some Ideas ( Multi-page thread 1 2 )
Suggestion: Confirmation e-mails for site submission

also - Will submitters ever able to check status? http://resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5734&highlight=status

or this guy who asked the same silly question in post #11 ==>http://resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3976

the bottom line is that we don't want to have such a system - but the reasons for that make no sense to anyone but an experienced editor
 

vogue777

Member
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Apr 21, 2005
Messages
46
since you referred me to the thread, let me reply to alucard's points :

We believe that we are providing a useful service to our customers (our customers being surfers and the downstream sites that use the data that we produce) and thus far, evidence seems to be that this style of directory, run in this fashion, is valuable. If we didn't matter, people wouldn't be complaining so loudly when "their" site doesn't get included.

Obviously dmoz does matter, but just because it matters doesn't mean it's run in the most efficient manner. Blood tranfusions matter, but they also add improvements as needed, like AIDs screening. (Yes, I'm not a fool, I understand the vast difference in importance between DMOZ and blood transfusions, just illustrating the point, something can be useful, even necessary to life, and still need great improvements.)

Many editors have questioned the value of the status checks - it is a regular discussion on internal fora. There are those that feel it serves no value at all, and should be stopped. There are those who feel that it has value.

I think if you look at this situation from a human psychological stand point. You have someone in a room, you tell them when they press a button that a piece of candy they like will fall into the room, eventually. They press it and wait... human nature is to hit it again. You see this with soda machines, you put the money in, press the button, nothing happens... couple seconds delay, you press it again. A reasonable delay for a soda machine may be only a few seconds, is 1-2 years really a reasonable delay for this directory? I really don't think it is.

After that, though, there is nothing that a submitter can do to speed things up - it's going to take as long as it takes. So why keep asking the equivalent of "are we there yet"?

I think Alucard is missing the point of the questions. The question is asked like "are we there yet" because, as we have established, DMOZ is important. And people are being nice, because the last thing they want to do is irritate the editor who is already acting like they couldn't really give a damn. But the real question is "why the hell is it taking DMOZ so long?!?!"

Like I said, why not have a soft limit for a fair amount of sites to be reviewed in a certain amount of time, and make that rate keep up with the rate of submission. As I said, not to burden the volunteer editors, but as an indicator of when they need assistance. I'm not saying stand behind someone and drive them with a whip to review sites... it's a volunteer position. But if they don't have the time, let other people apply, let the soft limit be the indicator of when other's should apply for a given category. If you've got more sites being added than you can handle, or if the wait is years, perhaps it's time to allow more editors in.

I think even a volunteer organization would understand this logic. Albeit, DMOZ is not as important as say... a soup kitchen, but generally, if they can't keep up with the rate of food that needs to be outgoing, they would look for more volunteers to fill the positions that can't keep up.

I'm not sure why there would even be argument about it... "NO!! WE LIKE BEING YEARS BEHIND ON SUBMISSIONS!! IT'S THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO OPERATE!" I just can't imagine people saying that... but I only need read up this thread to see almost exactly that.
 

vogue777

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Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Messages
46
"but the reasons for that make no sense to anyone but an experienced editor"

I'm beginning to think a lot of things only make sense to ODP editors, honestly.
 

bobrat

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Apr 15, 2003
Messages
11,061
But if they don't have the time, let other people apply
shows a total misunderstanding of the process. Anyone can apply at any time to any category whether it has an editor or not. In one specific area that I edit I have hundreds of unreviewed, I expect to go through that area around 10-30 sites per day, so it will take a while - anyone can join me and several have already, but new editors are not always so eager to edit at the rate I do, and so maybe they do one or two sites a month.

500 editors who only do one edit a month end up reviewing 6000 sites a year. That's a valuable asset, not every editor can do 6000 reviews a year.

We do have a minimum of one edit every four months. We consider that adequate. There is no reson to kick any editor out and push any editor harder, if they are editing correctly. There is no line up of qualified editors waiting outside to replace them. There are a lot of people who want to be editors, mostly to list their own site - most of them are not going to be good editors. The last thing we need is a speedy editor who creates a lot of bad reviews that someone else has to go fix.
 
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