www.term-life-insurance-protection.co.uk

T

tonyperry

I recently submitted the following site in
Regional: Europe: United Kingdom: Business and Economy: Financial Services: Insurance: Life and Pensions and am just checking to see if it's still in the queue.

Regards
Tony
 

windharp

Meta/kMeta
Curlie Meta
Joined
Apr 30, 2002
Messages
9,204
The URL of the submission was changed to http://www.yra.co.uk/ in the first go and awaits someone to review that entry now.

Please do not submit deeplinks, mirrors and portal-sites, ODP's policy is to list the main site only, especially in places that attract lots of spam (I am not talking about your site when mentioning "spam" - it's just a general thought on that field, as you surely know a lot of companies of the insurance-type show very spammy behaviour)
 

beebware

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Messages
1,070
http://dmoz.org/Regional/Europe/United_Kingdom/Business_and_Economy/Financial_Services/Insurance/Life_and_Pensions (beebs mutters darkly about cut'n'pasting the URL bar yet again)

http://www.term-life-insurance-protection.co.uk/ was found to be a vanity/gateway/door-way/rebranding of http://www.yra.co.uk/ on the 1st of August. http://www.yra.co.uk/ is sitting in the unreviewed queue of that category with around 20 other sites. Insurance categories do attract a large amount of spam, so it may still be a few months before you submission is dealt with.

Edit: windharp beat me by a couple of seconds <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" /> Oh well, we were practically saying the same thing anyway... See http://dmoz.org/help/search.html#notlisted and http://dmoz.org/guidelines/include.html for details.
 
T

tonyperry

Thanks for your speedy reply. YRA is the parent company of term life insurance protection UK (TLIP). YRA is the UK's largest independent firm of financial advisors and specialises in investment and pension business. TLIP is a brand new company set up to specialise in term life policies only. TLIP has completly seperate insurance angent agreements with for Norwich Union, Scottish Widows, Canada Life and all major UK insurance companies. (prof can be provided) TLIP has negotiated special rates with these providers to offer £250m of insurance to UK buyers, making TLIP the cheapest company to buy term insurance from.

We have never promoted our YRA site to you or anyone else and have no intention of ever doing so.

Should you wish to have any of these details confirmed by any of the UK's leading insurance providers please let me know and I will arrange it for you.

I hope these clears up any confusion and that you will now list the site rather than YRA.

Regards
Tony
 

beebware

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Messages
1,070
[off topic]

&gt;&gt; making TLIP the cheapest company to buy term insurance from. &lt;&lt;

Can you truely, honestly back that up with hard firm evidence?

[back on topic]

As I'm sure it's been said before, we don't "care" about your (or anybody elses) business model, it's just the sites and their content we really care about.

&gt;&gt; We have never promoted our YRA site to you or anyone else and have no intention of ever doing so. &lt;&lt;

ODP editors have heard something like this many times before and we just ignore it...If your site "is of quality", it will be visited by an editor (and, maybe even listed) at some point. Whether you submit it, a third party does or an editor finds it themselves (as has happened in this instance) it will be found by us - the ODP cannot be stopped! Mwahhh! (sorry - lack of sleep <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Personally, I'm not 100% sure why the URL was 'corrected' to YRA (as the YRA site is heavily under construction and the TLIP site seems to be mostly working), but I'm not too familar with the Insurance branches of ODP (and associated 'techniques'), but gimme a few hours to grab some sleep and I'll see if I 'think like the other editor' <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />
 
T

tonyperry

Beebware. Thanks for getting back to me.

Yes, I can pretty much guarantee that the site will provide the cheapest term life premiums in the UK. I can do this because our in-house software searches every UK provider and returns a quote from all of them. At any given time, the same 7 companies provide the cheapest quotes. We have negotiated discounted premiums that aren't available anywhere else with each of these 7 companies. Additionally, we sacrifice our commission by 60%, which reduces those premiums even more. In all our pre launch trials, no one has beaten any quote we have given. This alone I would hope is reason enough for the site to be useful to your users. Of course in the real world there is always going to be some exceptional set of circumstances that will prove me wrong!

The only reason I mentioned our business model is because I thought there was a suspicion that we were trying to get a listing for all the wrong reasons. Having spent 6 months researching the market I am aware that many so called insurance sites are just satellites which all point to the same few companies. If you investigate our site, you will see that this is not the case with us and that TLIP is a genuine financial services company. This can be confirmed by Norwich Union, Scottish Widows, and many other top UK insurance companies.

I have just checked the site and everything seems to be working fine. If you have discovered a problem, I would really appreciate you letting me know where it is so I can get it fixed.
Regards
Tony
 
J

just_browsing

If you have discovered a problem, I would really appreciate you letting me know where it is so I can get it fixed.
Tony
You appear to have a server problem, I am getting timeout error on all pages
 
T

tonyperry

Hi there
I've just checked and everything seems ok. I've also had 3 people check from different offices and they found it ok too. I will keep investigating!
Regards
Tony
 
T

tonyperry

With all due respect we have more content and advice about term insurance and how to use it wisely than most insurance companies offer. The fact that we then can supply the user with the cheapest solution to their problem really shouldnt be held against us, should it? After all, people dont surf for term life insurance information for fun! It's because they have a need and if we can advise them and solve that need cheaper than anyone else is'nt that the right thing to do?
A very frustrated Tony Perry
 
J

just_browsing

Tony

Apart from your response forms, the only "content" on the site is a page of Insurance News. That is not unique content.

The whole of that page is available at
http://www.moneyworld.co.uk/features/2002/f120402_protection_01.html and the author appears to be a director of that company not yours (I could be mistaken if you are in fact the same company).

But whatever way, unique content it is not. If that is not unique content, then your site has noting to offer apart from a response form <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" />
 

windharp

Meta/kMeta
Curlie Meta
Joined
Apr 30, 2002
Messages
9,204
[Edit: Grrrr... To late. But since it shows, that we look at the site with lots of people and all seem to get to the same result, I won't delete it]

I can see a single page describing types of insurances, and several pages mirroring parts of that one. Apart from that I see several links leading to the same inquiry-form.

Ah, I forgot that advertising site called "Insurance news". I find it curious that this text can be found somewhere else, too.
 

hutcheson

Curlie Meta
Joined
Mar 23, 2002
Messages
19,136
&gt;I can pretty much guarantee that the site will provide the cheapest term life premiums in the UK.

This, um, is just about the least unique claim an insurance agent can make. (I don't know if it's true, and not being in the UK I can't check and don't care. But you have to understand that a claim like this on the site will not be considered unique content.)

&gt;We have negotiated discounted premiums that aren't available anywhere else with each of these 7 companies.

&gt;In all our pre launch trials, no one has beaten any quote we have given. This alone I would hope is reason enough for the site to be useful to your users.

Unfortunately, this is not going to be something that editors will check. So it's not something that will be considered unique content.

&gt;I am aware that many so called insurance sites are just satellites which all point to the same few companies.

The difference between this and a site that points to the same 7 companies ... will not be immediately apparent to the site reviewer.

-------------------
There is a fundamental worldview difference here. In certain industries (like insurance and real estate), the dominant information model is "conceal and confuse". The primary players make most of their money simply off the fact that people CAN'T find the cheapest service. Their efforts to increase profitability are therefore primarily (if not exclusively) directed towards making it harder for people to find the cheapest service that fits their needs. They can then offer "services" that consist primarily of revealing the information they've gone to so much trouble to conceal in the first place.

The ODP's model is "index the sum of human knowledge" -- that is, make it easier to find the important information. It is understandable -- and inevitable -- that dmoz.org does not fit comfortably within industry perception of acceptable or valuable content; and often, vice versa.

Your website is caught in the crossfire, but from the ODP perspective serves as obfuscation, not the gods of knowledge or communication. The "knowledge content" is precisely what you've carefully concealed: WHICH insurance companies are offering coverage, and WHAT rates they offer. (I understand that your contract with the Lords of Mordor requires this.)

What you are doing instead is acting as an information SINK (from the surfer's point of view) -- taking away information. This (again, from the information-model point of view) is not a feature but merely an aggravation to the original crime. And information sinks are properly regarded with great suspicion and abhorrence by editors because one information sink looks just like another. We can't tell whether there are 10 companies gathering separate lists of contacts, or just one company with 10 doorway pages. We can't tell whether it will be used for bringing plagues of salesmen down upon us, or for fraud or identity theft, or even for some honorable purpose.

And in your defense, you start talking about your business model. The problem is not in YOUR business model but the WEBSITE'S information model.

Finally, and lest you take this personally, you cannot possibly imagine the abhorrence of such pages that one would have have after spending hours hunting down hundreds of variations on the same two or three pages. (I don't HAVE to imagine it. If I heard about the death of some of the webmasters who create such pages, I would travel all day to stand in line to barf on their graves. I wouldn't even have to use a finger: just thinking about those sites is sufficient stimulus. And I'm not alone in this.)

So we've discussed, and agreed, that the ODP's ultimate goal is not served, nor does it contribute to the enthusiasm of the editing community, to list "lead-generating" sites. At the end of the day, it's that simple.
 
J

just_browsing

The whole of that page is available at http://www.moneyworld.co.uk/features/2002/f120402_protection_01.html and the author appears to be a director of that company not yours (I could be mistaken if you are in fact the same company).
Out of curiosity I spent a while trying to establish a link between YRA and the author of this page on their site, and failed.

The page author is Robin Amlôt - Joined MX Financial Solutions in September 2001 as Senior Editor.

MX Financial Solutions is a wholly owned subsidiary of Bristol &amp; West Plc.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=ISO-8859-1&amp;q="young+ridgway"++"Bristol+%26+West+"&amp;btnG=Google+Search

yields no results. One has to hope that YRA have asked permission to use the page - there is certainly no link back to the authors own web site.
 
J

just_browsing

The page author is Robin Amlôt - Joined MX Financial Solutions in September 2001 as Senior Editor.
I dropped Robin Amlot an email suggesting he had a look at this thread, and might perhaps like to make an input.
 
J

just_browsing

If I heard about the death of some of the webmasters who create such pages, I would travel all day to stand in line to barf on their graves.
Just curious the entymology of "barf". I assume its not "bones and raw food" as in:-

"Welcome to BARFWorld.com!
The word BARF is an acronym for Biologically Appropriate Raw Food. BARF also stands for Bones And Raw Food. Other apt terms include evolutionary diet, natural diet, and species appropriate diet. Every living animal requires a biologically appropriate diet. If you think about it, not one animal on earth, is adapted by evolution to eat a cooked food diet. This means a BARF diet, is exactly what we should be feeding our pets!" <img src="/images/icons/confused.gif" alt="" />
 
T

tonyperry

When I queried my submission I had absolutely no idea I would be entering into a discussion which would end with me being slighted and my integrity questioned to the extent that I almost decided to walk away from the ODP listing and get on with something else. I even considered making some changes to the site to appease you all, but I'm not going to do that because the feedback we have collected from users confirms that we have achieved a balance that is right for them.

We have gone to a lot of trouble to ensure that site users find solutions to their problems quickly and easily by using short, tightly edited and well constructed paragraphs rather than long boring explanations which confuse users. Yes, we use exactly the same text in certain places to help the user at different points of the site. We do this on purpose to help users pick the right options, such as whether the policy should be written in trust or not? Would it make sense to answer the same question in many different ways?

It has been said that the site only has one page of content which is "Insurance News" and that this consist of one article PINCHED from Robin Amlôt. This is wrong. Insurance News has 1,637 words of which 574 are by Robin Amlôt leaving 1,063 words from other sources. There is a page ( accessible from home page ) called " Term life insurance explanation which consist of 576 words, and another, "Professional advice on calculating how much insurance you may need" which has 188 words. We believe that less is more and that quality of the content far outweighs the length of it.

There is no link between Robin Amlôt and ourselves, there never has been and never will be. The area called insurance news is exactly that, NEWS, and his article was of interest! This news page is due to be updated within the next few days and there will be articles from other writers to replace his article. The writers of these articles will also be from the insurance world as they understand the subject and are therefore able to write about it intelligently! When these articles appear on the site are you going to throw other accusations at us then too?

It has been suggested that the information we collect is just lead generating and could be diverted anywhere, such as directly to one of the 7 companies we have negotiated special rates with. I would like to point out that under UK law this would be illegal and is a very serious offence punishable by up to 7 years imprisonment. We adhere to the terms of the UK data protection act and all information collected remains strictly with us.

Out of interest I took the time to view the 8 sites (some of which are clearly satellites) that already appear in Regional: Europe: United Kingdom: Business and Economy: Financial Services: Insurance: Life and Pensions and can't see how we would be considered to lack content that is useful to your users. People do search ODP for information about term insurance in the UK as it's of particular interest over here right now. They search because they have a need and require a solution. Like it or not that solution is a commercial one and if we can provide the necessary information in a short precise format and also provide the cover cheaper and better than anyone else then I can't see why anyone would have a problem with that. If I dare I would like to quote one of your senior editors: ODP Meta Editor ettore: "we do care instead about the surfer's experience. In fact, from a surfer's (and editor's) point of view if a website sells multiple products from multiple vendors and there is a synergy and or pricing benefit to be gained by using that site, then said site provides unique content and may qualify for listing."
Regards
Tony
 

Since I have been quoted...

&gt;&gt; if a website sells multiple products from multiple vendors and there is a synergy and or pricing benefit to be gained by using that site, then said site provides unique content and may qualify for listing

The point here is that said site (in this case, your site) should sell products/services not already offered in another site and/or by the same company. If it does, it is a lead generating site.

Taking a look to the contact page of this site and to the contact page of the YRA site, please understand that it's very hard for us to believe that the former site is not a (very well) optimized version of the latter.

That is, let's say that my own company ElbonianWidgets LTD produces widgets.

I can put online www.elbonianwidgets.com, offering our widgets, and I am eligible for a listing.

I can also choose to put online two sites instead of one: www.handmadeelbonianwidgets.com and www.machinemadeelbonianwidgets.com , with the former selling hand made Elbonian widgets made by ElbonianWidgets LTD and the latter selling machine made elbonian widgets made by ElbonianWidgets LTD. One company, two sites clearly selling different kinds of products, and I may be eligible to two listings.

I can then choose to put online a third (or a fourth, fifth, etc.) site, www.hand-made-widgets-from-elbonia.com , made and optimized by my good friends SuperSEOCompany of Elbonia, where I present some info about how Elbonian widgets are made, and offer discounts on the ElbonianWidgetsLTD-produced widgets. This site will not be listed in the ODP.
 

&gt;&gt; If a website sells multiple products from multiple vendors and there is a synergy and or pricing benefit to be gained by using that site, then said site provides unique content and may qualify for listing&lt;&lt; Seeing as where I quoted you on that.I think that is the best explanation I have heard yet and that all ?'s sould be referred back to that thred for future refference <img src="/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />
 
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