2 Years Later, Site Not Listed!

spectregunner said:

You probably know this, but others who are just reading theads might not:

It is important to remember there are two relevant components to Google, a directory and a search engine and prople often confuse a listing in the Google directory with results in the much more popular Google search engine.

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google.co.uk and http://www.google.co.uk/dirhp?hl=en are both very different tools

the url in question exists in both (google search engine and google directory)

the dmoz listing happened post Feb 07 - because i only started talking to this guy from then onwards and he told me that he managed to get listed

When an abuse report is filed, it becomes visible to all Meta's and more than one Meta can investigate, comment on, and review the evidence presented. If evidence is found indicating abuse has occurred, it then goes to Meta discussion for a consensus on what actions are appropriate to take, often resulting in removal.

smartwater said:

the dmoz listing happened post Feb 07 - because i only started talking to this guy from then onwards and he told me that he managed to get listed

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Is it possible that he may have been mistaken about the timing of the listing in DMOZ? The google directory (if I am not mistaken) is a copy of the dmoz directory. If that is the case, they haven't sychronized the google directory with dmoz since sometime around or before the first of this year. If you look at the google directory it still shows me as a state editor of Mississippi and I resigned from being named on that category just after the first of the year so my guess is the last update occurred sometime before the end of 2006.

I wonder if Google update their entire directory at a go? I haven't found any Google directory categories that appear to have been updated since October, 2006, and I've checked a number of them.

shadow575 said:

Is it possible that he may have been mistaken about the timing of the listing in DMOZ? The google directory (if I am not mistaken) is a copy of the dmoz directory. If that is the case, they haven't sychronized the google directory with dmoz since sometime around or before the first of this year. If you look at the google directory it still shows me as a state editor of Mississippi and I resigned from being named on that category just after the first of the year so my guess is the last update occurred sometime before the end of 2006.

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all i can tell you is what i know. i only started speaking to this chap towards the end of feb 07. it was after this date that he told me he managed to get a listing in dmoz. the listing also appears in the google directory

so i don't have an answer as to why you are still showing as an editor

all i can tell you is what i know. i only started speaking to this chap towards the end of feb 07. it was after this date that he told me he managed to get a listing in dmoz. the listing also appears in the google directory

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I suspect that he was listed last year some time but didn't realize until early this year that he was. The Google directory definitely hasn't been updated since before our crash last year.

shadow575 said:

The google directory (if I am not mistaken) is a copy of the dmoz directory. If that is the case, they haven't sychronized the google directory with dmoz since sometime around or before the first of this year. ... my guess is the last update occurred sometime before the end of 2006.

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Yes, the Google directory is a copy of ODP, but it hasn´t been updated since February 2006.

http://jean.manco.googlepages.com/googleanddmoz:

Google normally updates its directory from the ODP every month. So it is odd that there has not been an update since 19 February 2006.

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Still waiting, and sensing other frustrations

After reading through this forum thread, it's not difficult to sense the frustration from site owners. I am frustrated also, and I understand why other site owners get frustrated with the DMOZ listing process.

Being listed in DMOZ is a valuable asset since many online directories get their data feed from DMOZ. When looking at the valuation of a web site, being listed in DMOZ (and therefore other directories) is an important factor.

I have applied on three seperate occasions (over the past 8 months) for my single web site. My frustration comes from not receiving ANY feedback over the outcome. I have not received a single reply or response to my submission.

If I have been rejected, then please let me know??? That's all I ask, then I can move on... If I have been accepted, then let me know that too... I can wait to appear in the listing as long as I have some idea what I am waiting for...

But, when I have to wait for months and months without acknowledgement, rejection, or any other feedback, it simply feeds my frustration level. I know everyone is busy, and I can be very patient when I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel...

Just my opinion...

Doesn't there exist a DMOZ policy that submitters should be told if they are accepted or rejected, or at least receive some type of status update?

bgculler said:

I have applied on three separate occasions (over the past 8 months) for my single web site. My frustration comes from not receiving ANY feedback over the outcome. I have not received a single reply or response to my submission.

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Actually to clarify what you have done is suggested a site that may or may not be of use in building a category. There is no guarantee that a site will be listed and there is no way to predict when an editor will decide to review a suggestion and find out. Multiple suggestions of the same site tend to lengthen the review time for reasons stated throughout these forums.

bgculler said:

If I have been rejected, then please let me know??? That's all I ask, then I can move on... If I have been accepted, then let me know that too... I can wait to appear in the listing as long as I have some idea what I am waiting for...

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I suppose this would be reasonable for listing services, of which DMOZ is not one. There are no services provided for the benefit of site owners, its just not what this particular project aims to do. Rather it uses what ever resources it can find, including but certainly not limited to, site suggestions to build a directory of sites that seekers of information (surfers) will find useful. You have made a suggestion to the editors and there is a confirmation (Thank you) page to let you know that we received your suggestion but with the exception of listed sites which will be visible in the directory shortly after being included, no further response is going to be coming as that is not a service offered. We, for a time did provide that service on these forums (which are unofficial forums maintained by volunteer editors of the directory) and it was decided that that experiment was unsuccessful at providing anything beneficial.

bgculler said:

But, when I have to wait for months and months without acknowledgement, rejection, or any other feedback, it simply feeds my frustration level. I know everyone is busy, and I can be very patient when I know there is a light at the end of the tunnel...

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There is nothing to wait on, the only thing being provided is the ability to suggest a site (doesn't even have to be your site, anyone is free to suggest anyones site) and there is no guarantee that the suggestion will be used so once the suggestion has been made, its best to continue on with other promotional strategies with the knowledge that you have done all you can for dmoz.

bgculler said:

Doesn't there exist a DMOZ policy that submitters should be told if they are accepted or rejected, or at least receive some type of status update?

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No, there is no reason to have such a policy when the directory makes no guarantee that site suggestions will be used and does not provide listing services for site owners. The directory also does not seek to list every site on each topic, rather just enough to give the end user an ample selection of quality information on the subject.
All suggestions are welcome (with in reason-extreme multiple suggestions will be regarded as spam and no longer be welcome) and we thank everyone for making their suggestions. Not every site is going to be listable. There really isn't anything positive or beneficial (to the directory) in providing status checks anyway. They can only be:

1. Not yet reviewed, no way to predict how long it will be.
2. Site reviewed and accepted (somewhere, maybe not where it was suggested) - That information is faster found by looking for the site in the relevant category.
3. Site reviewed and rejected as not being listable.

In all of these scenarios, there is nothing more that a site owner/suggester can do to change the situation so having the knowledge provides no positive benefit, however some of this knowledge in the hands of the few nasty spammers could be very harmful to the directory and unfortunately the cons outweigh the pro's (of which there really aren't any).

Perspective

It's interesting how different the perspective can be between someone who suggests a site, and someone who receives and reviews the suggestion.

If I dropped a suggestion in the local grocery store suggestion box, I would never expect a response. But, they don't impact my business valuation.

I have a better understanding of the ODP process as a result of your response though Shadow, so I appreciate the reply...

Thanks,
Bob

One viewpoint that some people have found helpful -- and others detest! -- is to think of us as a bunch of Internet hobbyists whose hobby it is to compile and publish lists of sites, using our own criteria.

We accept suggestions as to possible sites to add to our list, and if we add them they are there for the whole world to see. If we don't add them, well, we don't add them.

I often think of the model railroad I used to have in the basement -- back when I had a basement. If I chose to paint a tanker with the Chevron logo because I thought it looked cool, I didn't bother to announce to the world that I chose not to paint it in the Shell Oil color scheme. The people who saw my railroad saw the color scheme on the tanker. Those who did not, did not.

Now, you might be jumping up and down now, pointing at your screen and yelling -- "but gunner, it is different, an ODP editing decision can impact my revenues!"

Not really. You see, us deciding to list your, or not, site is no different than my painting the car. It does not impact your revenues. What other choose to do with our data may or may not impact your revenue -- in a manner that is not a whole lot different that if someone took a picture of my layout and published it, and people decided to but (or not buy) Chevron gasoline based on the color of my tanker.

((Please do not underestimate the amount of effort that goes into developing a line of thought as convoluted as the above.))

I would never underestimate the amount of effort required for such a significant convolusion... Take care gunner...

shadow575 said:

No, there is no reason to have such a policy when the directory makes no guarantee that site suggestions will be used and does not provide listing services for site owners. The directory also does not seek to list every site on each topic, rather just enough to give the end user an ample selection of quality information on the subject.

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you have used the words quality information

i have come across a category that has 21 flaws

here is a teaser:

- 2 websites that are about acne should really be in an acne category
- a website that is about SHAVING has even been included
- a site that sells electrical equipment to the dental and medical profession has also been included
- according to http://dmoz.org/Shopping/faq.html, distributors should be in a specific category - yet a distributor has been included
- a few tanning sites have been listed
- a site that sells rings/bags/bodyart has also been included
- there is a dead site that is listed
- a few soap sites

this is just some. there are 21 in total

sorry to say this but DMOZ needs a radical shake up. this also applies to the editors (and NO posts saying that you are volunteers - makes no difference. a friend volunteers at Oxfam. she has responsibilities to perform. if she does not, then she is shown the door)

the information in this category is just junk - yet it has all been allowed to happen

Smartwater,

We know there are categories within the directory that need attention. We are also aware that over time, and within a directory of this size some links will go dead and others may change content and direction. Errors in placement sometimes occur as well. We have a dedicated thread for people to report this type of problem here. If you are not interested in helping out by pointing out the problem listings that you have found than I am sorry, but what is the point of your post?

Artisan said:

but what is the point of your post?

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my point? how on earth do you allow 21 errors to occur in a certain category?

a couple perhaps. but 21. just shows that even experienced editors have not got a clue.

i will post my findings

my point? how on earth do you allow 21 errors to occur in a certain category?

a couple perhaps. but 21. just shows that even experienced editors have not got a clue.

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Since you haven't posted your findings in the appropriate thread, it's hard to tell how many of the 21 errors you think you found are actual mistakes. It may be that a new editor made some mistakes that weren't discovered by an experienced editor. It's also possible that sites have changed over the years. But it's entirely possible that you are mistaken about some of the sites that you feel are inappropriate for the category. But we won't know until you actually report it in the appropriate thread in the Quality Control Feedback forum.

jimnoble said:

Re-suggesting a website a few times to the same category isn't a problem because there can be good reasons for that.

Suggesting it a lot of times is spamming - which wastes everybody's time and could cause your website to be banned.

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If a page didn't show up for years, why would be suggesting it again considered as spamming?
Also, if I want to remove competitor sites I can suggest those sites again and again until it will be removed from the directory.
It think you guys at dmoz.org just losing your credibility and this directory with the editors that don't list your URLs for years are just in position to make fools of us who just constantly trying to be listed for years.
When I applied for an editor to help them to process it quicker I've got a refusal where they say that they are very well covered at this category but you cannot ask them why then I don't show up for years if you covered well?
This is ridiculous.

If a page didn't show up for years, why would be suggesting it again considered as spamming?

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He didn't say that suggesting it again would be spamming; he said that "Suggesting it a lot of times is spamming."

When I applied for an editor to help them to process it quicker I've got a refusal where they say that they are very well covered at this category but you cannot ask them why then I don't show up for years if you covered well?

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The e-mail you received would have said that the category was well covered or was too broad for a new editor. The key part of that is the "too broad", which mean the category is either too large or is at too high a level for a new editor.

When we declined your application to become an editor, you might have missed the second phrase of

you have chosen a category that is already well represented, or is broader than we typically assign to a new editor.

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The more usual reason for sending that message is that the category is larger (or sometimes spammier) than we would assign to a beginner.

<Note to self: Must learn to touch type.>

It think you guys at dmoz.org just losing your credibility and this directory with the editors that don't list your URLs for years are just in position to make fools of us who just constantly trying to be listed for years.

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I think you're just not understanding that we're not a listing service for website owners, dragon2000gh. We don't want all websites, and with tens of thousands of site suggestions to review, it's not surprising that one particular suggestion (yours) might have to wait quite a long time before an editor can either get to it, or be interested enough in that particular category to edit there.

It's not a matter of waiting in line till it's your turn, there are no turns.

As far as applying to edit a certain category, it's like a pyramid. If you edit in a category at the top of the pyramid, it gives you editing permissions for all of the categories in that pyramid, right down to the bottom.

New editors have to start in a category at the bottom of the pyramid, as all of us did, because there's a lot to learn about editing before you can be trusted with many categories.