charlesleo
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Could this be restricted to them through their login information?
Directory Attitude - An Open Letter to DMOZ!
- Thread starter charlesleo
- Start date
How unfortunate that such a well poised and pertinent message, such as the one which spawned this thread, was completely negated by the moderators and editors as they pass yet another golden opportunity to spare this tragically reduced platform from further embarrassment and decline. The only message worth mention was the questioning of the current importance of DMOZ. In fact, I can point to a number of articles in highly respected periodicals which lament that very issue. I couldn't point to a single reputable source that is crowing the opposite. Pretty much in agreement across the board, DMOZ is dead, and we can thank the silly, arrogant editors who have been brandishing some undeserved sense of accomplishment beyond anything I've ever seen. How ironic. The very same ignorance and diaper wetting of these editors as they seemed to have lulled themselves into some imagined sense of power and importance, caused the death of this platform, and probably their last hope of ever having anything even close to those imagined endowments. In their snotty stomping and posturing they have managed to make themselves the laughing stocks of the greater internet community and destroyers of something with great potential. BTW editors, 99% or your words are not only useless, redundant and predictable, but they lay bare your complete lack of vision and, frankly, stupidity.
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Frankly, JaBooters, using a thesaurus (internal or external) doesn't make your message any more meaningful. I'm not going to respond to it at any length (though others might) because, frankly, it's pointless to try and deflect arrows shot at imaginary goals. Or, to put it in other words: You are attacking something that doesn't exist, and you despise the editors because they don't conform to your vision of what the ODP should be.
Please try to make the content of your postings match their beautiful form in future. Editors are pretty experienced at looking through polished fronts and detecting lack of content beyond them, you see. If, on the other hand, you wish to discuss any real problem with the ODP, you'll find the editors happy to listen -- as witnessed in a large number of threads.
Please try to make the content of your postings match their beautiful form in future. Editors are pretty experienced at looking through polished fronts and detecting lack of content beyond them, you see. If, on the other hand, you wish to discuss any real problem with the ODP, you'll find the editors happy to listen -- as witnessed in a large number of threads.
This project is flawed - after trying for 2 years to get listed, it only serves the "lottery winners" (websites lucky enough to have a volunteer in their category and older websites when the system may have been viable) and the large players of the internet who have a major influence in this industry (old boys clubs mentality - you scratch my back etc... im sure this is the fact - actually whats to stop the big web companies employing/allocating someone to be a volunteer for the sole reason of rejecting competition?)
how many excellent websites has this project not listed due to backlog.
maybe it is time to go professional i wouldn't mind paying a fee for listing as this project has some influence over rankings in natural listings.
many of us small time businesses get cr@pped on from all quarters - dmoz project is adding to the cr@p im afraid. Skewed massively in favour of well established and large organizations.
how many excellent websites has this project not listed due to backlog.
maybe it is time to go professional i wouldn't mind paying a fee for listing as this project has some influence over rankings in natural listings.
many of us small time businesses get cr@pped on from all quarters - dmoz project is adding to the cr@p im afraid. Skewed massively in favour of well established and large organizations.
wjcampbe
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- Apr 4, 2005
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- 198
We are happy to say, absolutely NONE.
There are only two reasons a site is ever not listed -
1. It has not been reviewed yet
2. It does not qualify for a listing
I got a chuckle out of this one - obviously if influence has been applied, then the listing could no longer be natural.
Let me set you a challenge - choose either of these exercises
Exercise 1 - pick ANY non-shopping category in DMOZ and read the category description, so you understand the type of site that fits in that category.
Go out on the Internet tonight, find three sites that contain information on that category that is not already available on any of the sites listed.
If you find ANY, please suggest them to the category.
Exercise 2 - find a small category in DMOZ with only about 10 sites listed. Put any one of these sites into your favourite search engine. Now examine the first 30 results Are ALL the sites in DMOZ listing in that top 30? Do all of the sites in that top 30 provide unique information that is not already included in any of the sites listed in DMOZ? Is there an outstanding (in terms of content only please) site that is not listed in DMOZ? Suggest that site to the category.
gizagizmo, I'm not sure what the communication problem is; maybe you can help explain it. For years, we editors have been saying (in this and other forums): "The ODP doesn't offer webmaster services; if you need them, go somewhere that offers what you need. There are MANY places that offer what you need."
And still, you are shocked, SHOCKED to find that the ODP isn't offering you the webmaster services you want.
How is it that someone could be on the planet and even on the web in the last five years, and NOT find out what the ODP does and doesn't do? Where is the ODP being discussed, and this message is not being expressed? If it's being expressed, can you figure out why people are still so confused, so deceived, so misled?
And perhaps, who is deceiving people into thinking that the ODP IS some kind of webmaster service? How do they do it? Spiked drinks?
And still, you are shocked, SHOCKED to find that the ODP isn't offering you the webmaster services you want.
How is it that someone could be on the planet and even on the web in the last five years, and NOT find out what the ODP does and doesn't do? Where is the ODP being discussed, and this message is not being expressed? If it's being expressed, can you figure out why people are still so confused, so deceived, so misled?
And perhaps, who is deceiving people into thinking that the ODP IS some kind of webmaster service? How do they do it? Spiked drinks?
nea said:
Well Nea, I must say , your rebuttal is certainly one of the more magnanimous and complimentary that I’ve seen or received in a long time. I'm flattered that you perceived the form of my post as one deserving suspicion of having been generated by inorganic methods. Also, I certainly don't "despise" DMOZ editors, not any more so than the rest of random society. I find it especially meaningful that all this comes from a little green, appendage-type being . Perhaps I could have conveyed the message differently , however, Form before function is good enough for me.
charlesleo
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What? Walk away for a week and this is what I see. I have no response to that lol...
bobrat
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My best guess is that he thinks the picture of mozzie belongs in http://dmoz.org/Health/Reproductive_Health/Sexually_Transmitted_Diseases/ 
charlesleo
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What - that you have blue appendages?
I've waited for nearly 3 years and still nothing
So don't feel bad....Ive been under review since O4 and i decided to let the editors do their thing, confident that they'd get to my website.....well, years later i come back and not only isn't it listed....but I was shocked and abhored to find out that now DMOZ has now went as far as blowing off our update requests.......wow, how very nice.
So don't feel bad....Ive been under review since O4 and i decided to let the editors do their thing, confident that they'd get to my website.....well, years later i come back and not only isn't it listed....but I was shocked and abhored to find out that now DMOZ has now went as far as blowing off our update requests.......wow, how very nice.
charlesleo
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- May 3, 2006
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I assume you wrote because of ranking in the search engines. There's plenty of other directories you can submit to to get your rankings up - which I have done rather successfully. Granted, it isn't as easy as a DMOZ listing but at least you don't have to wait.
spectregunner
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I only have about 17,000 edits, so I am fairly new, but I really don't know of a way to update an unpublished listing.
In fact, if a site is not listed, I know of no way to submit an update.
Perhaps in my newness I am missing something.
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Don't tease, spectre -- you know he meant status requests
Not that joeypasta will be able to read this, since his trolling got him banned, but it's worth pointing out (once again!) that DMOZ never offered status checks. It was only in this forum, which isn't and never was an official ODP forum, that editors who wanted to perform status checks did so, until after a couple of years it became obvious that the checks were causing more problems than they solved. But I don't need to go into that, it's explained in the thread about the cessation of status checks.
Not that joeypasta will be able to read this, since his trolling got him banned, but it's worth pointing out (once again!) that DMOZ never offered status checks. It was only in this forum, which isn't and never was an official ODP forum, that editors who wanted to perform status checks did so, until after a couple of years it became obvious that the checks were causing more problems than they solved. But I don't need to go into that, it's explained in the thread about the cessation of status checks.
Open?
I think I share the experiences and frustration of CharlesLeo and if I may be presumptious, offer some support to what I believe is a common experience with a flaw in the process (not the people) ODP uses to consider new site inclusion requests.
Starting with the self described mission of the ODP to:
"become the definitive catalog of the Web."
I do not understand why it is unrealistic for a webmaster (just like any other net citizen) to expect that their request for inclusion be considered through some reasonably organized process. It has been offered that editors can use any method they want to search out new sites. Fine, add the Dutch folkdancing category on the creative initiative of an experienced editor, but once a category has been created and towards the stated mission of being "definitive", why are site submission requests not given SOME organized consideration?
To dismiss webmasters and business owners as not "what ODP is about", is wrong I think. Aren't we net citizens also? Do we not have something to offer ODP? Are we just supposed to create content and then just HOPE someone can find us? WHO do you think is providing the content that ODP is indexing anyway? And, what is wrong with ODP being important to rankings? That is validation that the directory has relevance, good job. Why bemoan that webmasters see organic search and ODP as a way to succeed above spam without resorting to Adwords (I have).
Yes, I have requested inclusion of my site for purposes of improving my rankings and other nefarious motives like helping people find my site. But, save me the spam excuses, a website for a small family foundry in business since 1912, is hardly spam. Nor is the category or even meta category rife with spam such that an editor can't keep up with submissions.
After several months time waiting for a response to my inclusion request, I researched my category, and submitted 3 omitted, but very deserving sites of my competitors (reference wjcampbe's condescending post) with my application to become an editor. I fully disclosed my intention to improve my own visibility, as well as my, industry. I was also motivated to help reorganize the Foundries category as the sub categories are horribly organized, but above all I want to help promote my industry and it pains me to see my category so poorly attended to. Foundries aren't glamorous, but we deserve better and I am willing to help. No conspiracy theory here, I'm sure the editor has never seen a foundry, much less conspiring to lock anyone out.
If I do not pass muster to be an editor fine, but whoever is editing this category is hardly doing ANYONE a service in the maintenance of this category. Not to bash the editor, but as an example where the vaunted "surfer" is NOT being serviced by dismissal of my requests. As a content provider to this category, I have expert knowledge of the topic area and do not understand why site inclusions requests go into a black hole. I WOULD understand how someone would find it hard to keep up with the number of requests, but I do not understand the defense of not processing requests FIFO, or citing processing of a request from 2003 as a defensible process.
I suppose that an editor could glance at a request, and cherry pick the obvious good ideas, instead of reviewing every request thoroughly FIFO, but still I think there IS some accountability to the requestor. As a small business owner, I am many things all at once, not just a webmaster. I AM a legitimate member of the web community and frankly I think ODP treats inclusion requestors and wanna-be editors shabbily based on my experience.
WE, ALL OF US, ARE THE COMMUNITY. Just because we are small business owners and webmasters does not mean the ODP is not intended to serve us as well. Again, where does good content come from anyway? If we create it, why shouldn't we want people to see it. I am honest and have a real product and knowledge to offer. Why should I not be interested in getting included in the directory, or expect some kind of response? Is ANYONE well served by another authority site with hidden processes and no accountability but unto themselves?
Whewww....I hope some opinions from the weeds aren't too random for this thread. Although I am sorely disappointed with my experience so far, I continue to root for this project's success and I am encouraged by the energy and ethusiasm of it's editor community. A feisty defense of your mission is certainly warranted.
Cheers,
James
I think I share the experiences and frustration of CharlesLeo and if I may be presumptious, offer some support to what I believe is a common experience with a flaw in the process (not the people) ODP uses to consider new site inclusion requests.
Starting with the self described mission of the ODP to:
"become the definitive catalog of the Web."
I do not understand why it is unrealistic for a webmaster (just like any other net citizen) to expect that their request for inclusion be considered through some reasonably organized process. It has been offered that editors can use any method they want to search out new sites. Fine, add the Dutch folkdancing category on the creative initiative of an experienced editor, but once a category has been created and towards the stated mission of being "definitive", why are site submission requests not given SOME organized consideration?
To dismiss webmasters and business owners as not "what ODP is about", is wrong I think. Aren't we net citizens also? Do we not have something to offer ODP? Are we just supposed to create content and then just HOPE someone can find us? WHO do you think is providing the content that ODP is indexing anyway? And, what is wrong with ODP being important to rankings? That is validation that the directory has relevance, good job. Why bemoan that webmasters see organic search and ODP as a way to succeed above spam without resorting to Adwords (I have).
Yes, I have requested inclusion of my site for purposes of improving my rankings and other nefarious motives like helping people find my site. But, save me the spam excuses, a website for a small family foundry in business since 1912, is hardly spam. Nor is the category or even meta category rife with spam such that an editor can't keep up with submissions.
After several months time waiting for a response to my inclusion request, I researched my category, and submitted 3 omitted, but very deserving sites of my competitors (reference wjcampbe's condescending post) with my application to become an editor. I fully disclosed my intention to improve my own visibility, as well as my, industry. I was also motivated to help reorganize the Foundries category as the sub categories are horribly organized, but above all I want to help promote my industry and it pains me to see my category so poorly attended to. Foundries aren't glamorous, but we deserve better and I am willing to help. No conspiracy theory here, I'm sure the editor has never seen a foundry, much less conspiring to lock anyone out.
If I do not pass muster to be an editor fine, but whoever is editing this category is hardly doing ANYONE a service in the maintenance of this category. Not to bash the editor, but as an example where the vaunted "surfer" is NOT being serviced by dismissal of my requests. As a content provider to this category, I have expert knowledge of the topic area and do not understand why site inclusions requests go into a black hole. I WOULD understand how someone would find it hard to keep up with the number of requests, but I do not understand the defense of not processing requests FIFO, or citing processing of a request from 2003 as a defensible process.
I suppose that an editor could glance at a request, and cherry pick the obvious good ideas, instead of reviewing every request thoroughly FIFO, but still I think there IS some accountability to the requestor. As a small business owner, I am many things all at once, not just a webmaster. I AM a legitimate member of the web community and frankly I think ODP treats inclusion requestors and wanna-be editors shabbily based on my experience.
WE, ALL OF US, ARE THE COMMUNITY. Just because we are small business owners and webmasters does not mean the ODP is not intended to serve us as well. Again, where does good content come from anyway? If we create it, why shouldn't we want people to see it. I am honest and have a real product and knowledge to offer. Why should I not be interested in getting included in the directory, or expect some kind of response? Is ANYONE well served by another authority site with hidden processes and no accountability but unto themselves?
Whewww....I hope some opinions from the weeds aren't too random for this thread. Although I am sorely disappointed with my experience so far, I continue to root for this project's success and I am encouraged by the energy and ethusiasm of it's editor community. A feisty defense of your mission is certainly warranted.
Cheers,
James