Editors with Conflict of Interest??

Ok, first the link drops are not appropriate, and neither would this be a place for an abuse report. Yes, we know the abuse report mechanism is still not available, but if you *must* place a report, please use private message to a meta, rather than a public posting.

That aside. this is not abuse, it is a fundamental misunderstanding on your part of how DMOZ works.

Sites are categorised (in the Regional branch), primarily by their physical location.

For our purposes its based on someone using the directory as a directory - ie stepping down to smaller geographical divisions.
Since they know that when they get to Dingle all sites listed there are about the place called Dingle, in County Kerry, in Ireland from the path name Regional/Europe/Ireland/Kerry/Localities/Dingle/ there is no need to add that information again to the Title or Description.

Sometimes it is included in the Title because it's the proper name of the site/business ( guidelines at http://dmoz.org/guidelines/describing.html#titles ), and sometimes it's included in a description where it is *required* to make the description make sense (ie not added gratuitously to add a keyword for a non directory user).

I would like to know why it has never been indexed under the search results based on the keyword "Dingle".

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DMOZ search is not intended to be used to find sites, but rather to find categories. Some sites are also shown where the word happens to be used in their descriptions, but this is not the intention of the search as it currently exists. There is no ranking in DMOZ search, just what sites it finds first in the index.

I can't become an editor for this section

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No one can become an editor at present because of the system failure, watch the announcement at the top of forum for when this changes.

I cant seem to get my information updated in the hope it would allow me to become more prominent within the search results

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Sounds like you are trying to keyword stuff a description - thats never a valid reason for accepting an update. Generally the update feature is there to allow you to advise us of errors, information that has been added or deleted from the site, changes in location, changes in url. It is not there for changing a description that is valid to one that uses promotional, first person, or keyword laden phrases agaist our guidelines http://dmoz.org/guidelines/describing.html#descriptions .

Good post, gimmster, . I agree.

>I cant seem to get my information updated in the hope it would allow me to become more prominent within the search results for "..." and or the "..."

In fact, editors simply cannot control the order of search results. Thus, no abuse is involved (except, of course, for your own attempt to abusively manipulate the search results for ulterior motives.)

Gimmster,
Thank you very much for your reply. I am sorry for dropping names in my initial post and for using it as an area to discuss this topic. I now understand how this forum works and I will use it properly from now on.

Your post was very helpful and I have taken all your points on board. I will revisit the guidelines and make all the proper changes. Once again I would like to thank you.

Can't Get Listed Same Problem Here

I have the same problem getting my site listed. I have reported it for the past 3 years with no results. I have submitted my site every 3 to 6 months for the past 3 years but someone (I believe is the editor for my category) is refusing to list my site. I have had some minor success with submitting to other categories with other sites but my main site never gets listed. Originally I applied to be an editor and was also turned down I believe by the same person ie Editor. It makes things really bad when an editor has a conflict of interest and only allows his own site to be listed.

Originally I applied to be an editor and was also turned down I believe by the same person ie Editor.

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Highly unlikely. Only meta editors and catmods can review editor applications so the chance that the person reviewing your application and the person listed as an editor in the category where you want your site being the same person is astronomically slim.

It makes things really bad when an editor has a conflict of interest and only allows his own site to be listed.

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If you have some reason (other than the fact that your site hasn't been listed) for believing abuse is taking place, feel free to report it using our abuse reporting tool report-abuse.dmoz.org . The most common reason, though, for a listable suggested site not being listed in a category is simply that no one has gotten around to reviewing it, not abuse. As was mentioned in your old thread, this is especially likely in directory or guide categories in Regional since the degree of spam suggested to those categories is usually higher than other Regional categories.

As a Regional editor, myself, I can confirm what motsa just said. I stay away from certain categories because they're spam magnets, the sites themselves are so overloaded with information that they're a pain to wade through, and my time is better spent in cleaner categories getting three times as many site suggestions reviewed.

Now, with editor abuse insinuated, I have even less desire to visit them.

Cant get listed

I can assure all editors my site is not spam and my category is targeted to only 1 city. I run a business directory that is targeted only to 1 city in the usa. My site is very well ranked by all of the search engines so it is not anything wrong with my site. I have heard all of the editors at dmoz try and say it's this or that reason but all of their reasons don't add up. When the category I am trying to get listed in only has a few sites listed in it and those sites have stayed the same for 3 years. I was not turned down as an editor because of any good reason. I have been trying to get listed for 3 years and during those 3 years I have been advertising dmoz on every page of my site but I am going to change that soon. I own and operate one of the largest business directories in my city and I know as an editor of a directory what is involved but when you most likely have 1 editor for my category it is easy to understand how a conflict of intrest could be a problem.

That type of site is more useful to us, as it often provides many other new urls for sites in that locality that haven't been listed yet.

I would suggest you submit the suggestion one more time.

For what it's worth, jonscomputers, we could care less about where your site ranks, it has no bearing on whether we list it, none whatsoever. It's not something I look at or that I'm even aware of while editing.

The reason that 90% of unlisted site suggestions haven't been listed is because an editor just hasn't reviewed it yet. (and that is the honest truth)

Every single site suggester believes that their particular site suggestion is absolutley the very best of sites, and should be listed immediately, , and that if there are 100 or more other site suggestions there, the editor must be crazy or crooked not to review theirs first.

That doesn't constitute abuse, and the 200 to 300 other editors who can and often do edit there, can't all be crooked, can they?

I am one of those editors, and I have editing permissions in all 50 states, and every category in every city. Which one of those thousands and thousands I choose to work in on any particular day is totally up to me. I don't consider it editor abuse if I don't choose the one category out of all of those that your site suggestion happens to reside in. And, each of the hundreds of thousands of other site suggestions we get, are also just as important to those site owners as yours is to you.

That's why our editing has to be impartial, and not show any favoritism.

jonscomputers said:

I can assure all editors my site is not spam and my category is targeted to only 1 city. I run a business directory that is targeted only to 1 city in the usa. My site is very well ranked by all of the search engines so it is not anything wrong with my site. I have heard all of the editors at dmoz try and say it's this or that reason but all of their reasons don't add up.

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There are only a few reasons a suggested site is not listed
1 (and most probably) no editor reviewed it yet
2 (less probable) it was send to a better category
3 it is not listable and as such was rejected (you can check yourself if a site is listable by reading the DMOZ guidelines)
4 (very unlickely) an editor made a mistake
5 (almost impossible, but can happen) editor abuse
If you are sure option 3 and 2 are not applicable and you suggested the site more than once (hereby eliminating option 4, two mistakes in a row for the same site is almost impossible) only option 1 and 5 are open.
As no editor can influence everything that happens in a specific category not listing a website based on abuse is almost impossible.
Not reviewing a site on itself is not absue you must have more prove to file an abuse report.
My beth is that the site is still waiting review.

jonscomputers said:

I was not turned down as an editor because of any good reason.

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If editor applications are turned down it is always for a good reason. It might be that you did not recognise that reason.

jonscomputers said:

I have been trying to get listed for 3 years and during those 3 years I have been advertising dmoz on every page of my site but I am going to change that soon.

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We never ask for backlinks or any advertising. If you have these links or not will not influence your chance of being listed (unless you use data from DMOZ in your directory, in which case you must put the needed links on your site)

jonscomputers said:

I own and operate one of the largest business directories in my city and I know as an editor of a directory what is involved but when you most likely have 1 editor for my category it is easy to understand how a conflict of intrest could be a problem.

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No category is owned by a single editor, many (depending on the catgeory upto 300) editors can "work" in a category. Through this potential social control we are able to eliminate most (intentional and non-intentional) errors.

Broken Record

If you look at my past posts you will realize in the past 3 years I have heard this all before over and over again. As I said I own and operate and edit a very large directory and as such I am very well aware of all the rules and complaints as I get plenty myself. With that said 3 years is a very long time and a submission every 3 to 6 months = 6 to 12 submissions in three years. I think that is plenty of time to review a site. Now with that said I have placed other sites during the same time frame and they were listed no problem. Now if my site meets all the requirements rules and regulations and the site is submitted according to your guidelines there must be something fishey when I can get other sites listed but not this one. I also understand that as editors you have access to edit other categories but really how many editors are interested in editing directorys and guides in one regional city. Also if there are so many 1000,s of submissions to go through in this category then why have the same site been listed over the past 3 years. I would think if there were so many submissions to this category that there would be some new sites showing up over the past 3 years. You see I research my area and I know exactly how many directories there are in the area and I find it hard to believe that you receive 1000's of directories submitted that you have to review for this category. Also I never implied that dmoz owed me for advertising dmoz it was just a statement and your reply is a testament to dmoz's gratitude for helping dmoz.

> a submission every 3 to 6 months = 6 to 12 submissions in three years.
This is clearly against DMOZ guidelines

Please only submit a URL to the Open Directory once. Again, multiple submissions of the same or related sites may result in the exclusion and/or deletion of those and all affiliated sites.

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> but really how many editors are interested in editing directorys and guides in one regional city.
Not many I guess. Which is exactly the reason why your suggestion is not reviewed yet. For DMOZ it has much more value to list the real websites instead of some directory which would only add an extra step for our users before they could reach the real content.

but really how many editors are interested in editing directorys and guides in one regional city.

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This is the key question to ask - if the answer is none, then there won't be any listings added to that specific category. If the answer changes at some point in the future - then there will probably be listings added to that category.

Added - call me slowpoke.

Forget It

I can see that your not interested in adding sites that improve dmoz and I am tired of all the retoric for 3 years. I give up ! I am removing all links to dmoz and will leave you alone. I have seen lots of others go through this nonsense and its not worth it to me. I think this is more like an editors country club for elite members only. Have A Nice Day !

I think you might have missed the point about what people were saying to you. The biggest reason why your site has probably not been reviewed is because no editor has an interest in editing in that category. It's just that simple.

Editors pick the categories that they wish to edit based on their interests. If no editor is interested in editing in that category, then suggested sites are going to be sitting in the pool waiting for someone to come along and take a look. Eventually someone is going to find that category interesting and then they may look through the suggested pool and review your web site, but until that happens, the suggestions are just going to be waiting. That might take years. That's OK though because editors are working on other areas where they have an interest and they are adding hundreds of web sites to the directory on a daily basis.

The other issue that has been mentioned here, is that sometimes we're not going to add directory web sites to the ODP. It all depends on the type of directory it is. If it's just a directory that lists other web sites, then an editor might decide to go through the directory and list the sites that they find there instead of the directory itself. If it's a directory that is also a destination/portal type web site that contains lots of unique information above and beyond just the directory listings, then an editor might decide that it's a great addition to the ODP.

It has nothing to do with long line-ups or editor corruption, it's just the way this project works. We edit in the areas where we have an interest, and eventually every category gets an edit. We don't know when that will be, but that's OK. We're not trying to add every site on the Internet, just the ones that we find that add something interesting to the categories that we edit

Also if there are so many 1000,s of submissions to go through in this category then why have the same site been listed over the past 3 years.

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For the record, I did not say that, I said:

"Every single site suggester believes that their particular site suggestion is absolutley the very best of sites, and should be listed immediately, , and that if there are 100 or more other site suggestions there, the editor must be crazy or crooked not to review theirs first. "

and, I said:

"I am one of those editors, and I have editing permissions in all 50 states, and every category in every city. Which one of those thousands and thousands I choose to work in on any particular day is totally up to me. "

spamming dmoz is the easiest thing if your a genuine spammer. For example suppose you want to list your hotel affiliate website. Here what you to. Put together a bunch of cut and paste lightweight directory pages. Call yourself by a guide such as guidetorichmond.co.uk
Next submit some inner pages to pages run by your mates. For example

http://www.guidetorichmond.co.uk/strawberry.html
Arts: Literature: World Literature: British: Gothic: Walpole, Horace

http://www.guidetorichmond.co.uk/rda.html
Reference: Education: Special Education: Learning Disabilities: Dyslexia: Centers

http://www.guidetorichmond.co.uk/rda.html
Regional: Europe: United Kingdom: England: London: Richmond: Society and Culture

http://www.guidetorichmond.co.uk/cinnamonflowers.html
Regional: Europe: United Kingdom: England: London: Kingston: Business and Economy

(yes one lightweight page even gets a double listing)

and there you have it. Good sites cant even get added but a 1000 page copy and paste affiliate hotel website has 4 entries.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site:www.guidetorichmond.co.uk&btnG=Google+Search

I don't edit in that area of the Directory, but, this type of post is very helpful to us when it's reported, mybanman.

Got any more? Weed em out, brother.

Deeplinks such as http://www.guidetorichmond.co.uk/rda.html are acceptable if they are the only web presence for an agency such as this.

If you have a better url we would appreciate it if you used the 'update listing' function from the category it is listed in.

We'd also like to know if it is a fictitious 'organisation' that snuck in, although in this case that url is linked from the British Dyslexia association site (see http://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/ldas.html )

<added> The thing we are interested in is unique content - where this content is located is not the primary concern. </added>

It is very obvious what happened in this case. It has nothing whatsoever to do with spamming the ODP, although the actual information flow might not occur to someone who's obsessed about spamming. (In fact, it would be a violation of the submittal policy for the webmaster to submit such a page.)

But in this case, some editor, having nothing whatsoever to do with the website itself, was searching for content on a historical person (Walpole was perhaps the father of the English gothic novel.) And the editor found something unique and interesting about him on a website devoted to his home town (no surprise there!)

I didn't add THAT link, but I clearly remember adding a similar page (from another local-town site) to a category (about another author) that I was building. It happens all the time: when you're looking for information on more specific or obscure topics, you will often deeplink sites devoted to some related topic.

But for pages like that, the spamming process you imagine, simply doesn't work. Because spammers don't bother to generate original content, they just steal from wikipedia (or some less authoritative source), maybe with clumsy rewording. It's a whole lot easier to get thousands of pages that way....but it doesn't bring the "street cred" of multiple ODP listings.

This illustrates something else about the ODP process that people often miss. We aren't reviewing websites for review. We're building categories. And so what we're looking for is not yet another 1000-page-of-plagiarized-drivel sites (and you know as well as I do how many of THOSE there are!) we're looking for information--any sort of information--about some topic. And if I'm looking for information on the medieval looting lutenist Stigello "the sticky-fingered", there might not be ANY single sites devoted to him, but I might find a picture of his grave here, a MIDI file of his music there, an impassioned diatribe from one of his victims (translated from Hungarian, with notes) on some academic site, a biography at wikipedia, a list of notable victims, ... who knows? So there might be all kinds of deeplinks.

And meanwhile, suggestions for a million Las Vegas travel portals, 999,990 of them committed by webmasters who couldn't find Las Vegas on a map of Utah with both hands and a flashlight, are languishing for lack of interest.

That's OK. Sooner or later we'll figure out how to pick out those 10 real authorities.