Site-reference.com blasts DMOZ.

motsa

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To clarify, the rules do not state that talking about Pagerank is banned, they only state that talking about how to use DMOZ to improve rankins is banned - I never did this, I was asking a question about how any inbound link in general could negatively affect page rank. Please read the Posting Guidelines yourself.
This forum is for the discussion of ODP-related questions and concerns. PR, being a Google creation, not an ODP one, is not an appropriate topic for this forum. It doesn't need to be specifically mentioned in the posting guidelines.

Discussion of this particular article was permitted but that doesn't mean that discussion of PR is now permitted.
 

lissa

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common complaint "that my site isn't being listed because my competitor is an editor".
I wish! ;) If this was true every time it was typed, we'd have at least 10 times more editors than we do!
 

timamie261

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I am very glad that you police your selves, there should not be a area to report editor abuse then, this would reduce what you call spam "unwanted email and comments"

I have found such an editor and a site owner confessing a existing relationship of some sort including being a regular active participant at the sites forums in question.

And when I located the sites it was true the sites were listed just were the person said they were

Blatant bragging of the site owner tipped me of on that one

Is it not possible that people do wrong at DMOZ and it some times goes un noticed.

I really cant wait for the sites to be reported and delisted.

May be it will go unreported because the form will never come back or work again??
 

chaos127

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there should not be a area to report editor abuse then, this would reduce what you call spam "unwanted email and comments"
Who said it was unwanted. We're as keen as you to stamp out abuse, so a way for people to report possible problems is useful information for us.

Is it not possible that people do wrong at DMOZ and it some times goes un noticed.
Yes it's perfectly possible. As in life, more devious and/or lucky people get away with things they shouldn't. As I said above, we want to stop abusive editors, so do our best to root them out. It's a balancing act though. Would you prefer we spent more time looking for them and less time actually editing?

I really cant wait for the sites to be reported and delisted.
I'm afraid you're going to have to. Even if you could report the problems now, while the editing system is down, we wouldn't be able to properly investigate or do anything about it. Sorry.
 

hutcheson

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The abuse reporting system was asked for (actually begged for) by the editors. It's unlikely that it would be taken away: if it were taken away, it would certainly be replaced -- by individual editor initiative, if necessary.
 

pvgool

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timamie261 said:
I am very glad that you police your selves, there should not be a area to report editor abuse then, this would reduce what you call spam "unwanted email and comments"
There is such an option (when the editor server will be back online). At the top of each catehory you will find a link called "report abuse/spam".

There is nothing against an editor having a relation with a webiste.
There is also nothing wrong with that editor listing that site, unless the website is unlisatble according to DMOZ guidelines.
There is only something wrong if that editor gives favor to the website he is related with. But as long as the editor also adds other sites to the directory there normaly isn't anything wrong.

If you supsect an editor abuse and can give some evidence ("my site is not listed" is no evidence) please report it (after the editor server is back online) and meta editors will investigate.
 

timamie261

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I get very discouraged at things like this, I spent time going through categories helping out. I find it hard to contribute to something, when some of the people work in the opposite direction.

Granted I have not contributed very much in the last two months, due to a job injury making me unfit for employment. So I have been preoccupied robbing Peter to pay Paul.

When I get things going again I will contribute more in the future, my next will be to get the sites desisted and the editor looked in to.

PVGOOL - thishas nothing to do with my site nor the category I submitted to, this is in a different area.

I already Know I will never be listed and that is that! I know as well there is nothing I could change to make it listable.

I did not post here for that reason either
 

pvgool

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timamie261 said:
I get very discouraged at things like this, I spent time going through categories helping out. I find it hard to contribute to something, when some of the people work in the opposite direction.
I don't know in which direction you are working [but any help you give is welcome].

timamie261 said:
When I get things going again I will contribute more in the future, my next will be to get the sites desisted and the editor looked in to.
You can't get sites delisted. You can only tell us about sites that should not be listed according to our current guidelines. If an editor thinks the site(s) should not be listed he will remove them.

You can also file an abuse report. But an editor listing sites he is related to is in itself not abuse. Other people bragging about how they got their site listed fast because they know an editor is also in itself not a sign of abuse.
 

timamie261

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pvgool said:
I don't know in which direction you are working [but any help you give is welcome].

I know you dont know. You must think me some negitve internet trash.


You can't get sites delisted. You can only tell us about sites that should not be listed according to our current guidelines. If an editor thinks the site(s) should not be listed he will remove them.

Posts to this section that I have made, have gotten the sites delisted and I post alot of them.

unless you going to say that non of my post made any difference

http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5453
 

brmehlman

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I think what pvgool meant is that your post alone is not sufficient to get a site delisted. The problem needs to be confirmed by an editor, who is then responsible for the removal of the listing.

You have indeed discovered many bad listings, and we heartily thank you for your help in improving our directory.
 

pvgool

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It seems you are reading a lot of things I never wrote.
I only wrote that we are please with any help we get in finding sites that shouldn't be listed anymore but that it is not you that is doing the delisting. Nor that you can decide if a site should be delisted or not. Only if an editor agrees that the site is not listable anymore (s)he will remove it.
 

hutcheson

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tim, you posted a couple of times with what were either extremely sarcastic negative comments, or rather puzzling grammatical errors. (I assumed it was sarcasm, but that may have been my mistake.)

You posted something about "not working in the same direction" -- but nobody here knows exactly what you were talking about (that's what pvgool was responding to, and that's what he meant by the comment wich bothered you.) I don't think we're working completely at different directions -- but I'm not sure you completely understand our map coordinates yet either.

You also posted something that seemed to suggest you thought the editors wanted the "report abuse" function to go away. But the fact is, we asked for it, we begged for it, we asked for it some more ... until we got it. We will not give it up without a fight. And I don't think AOL will ask us to.

And, as brmehlman says, you've been repeatedly helpful. Three comments on that:

(1) You haven't been infallibly helpful, you've made some mistakes. That's OK, very few editors haven't made palpable mistakes. You've been accurate enough that you have a reputation that your suggestions are always worth checking. Some people have given similar help and developed an even better reputation for accuracy; other people have used the mechanism for insane conspiracy theories. It is the unhelpful posts--not your helpful ones or even your occasional mistakes--that are unwelcome.

(2) But, whatever your reputation, as pvgool says, we'll still always check. That's our responsibility.

(3) An aside: when anyone has repeatedly been helpful, they shouldn't have to apologize for the help they didn't give! You don't need to justify not-helping for two months, or two years, or forever! If you don't contact the ODP forevermore -- you will still have been helpful. If after two years of not-helping, you came back with more help, you'd be remembered. In that respect, you've done more than some volunteers who were accepted as editors, and your reputation reflects it.
 

richrajo

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Nov 16, 2006
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The article you referred to makes one claim that I know to be true "....Forum postings from DMOZ editors suggest this is completely wrong – that the process works perfectly and submission success is always emailed ...."

I have several sites listed in various categories in DMOZ, I have never once received an email confirming inclusion.
 

old_crone

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Emails are not sent out for submissions/suggestions of website to the directory. Editor applications do receive an email. Perhaps you misread or misunderstood what process does receive an email?
 

hutcheson

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"....Forum postings from DMOZ editors suggest this is completely wrong – that the process works perfectly and submission success is always emailed ...."

That statement is, so far as I've ever seen, a pair of false representations.

(1) that e-mails are sent out on "success" of a "submittal". They aren't, they never were, and I've never seen a real editor claim they were.

But, beyond that, from an editor's point of view, a submittal doesn't "succeed" or "fail". It simply provides information that turns out to be useful or not useful. (Sometimes it leads to the information being passed on to some other editor, or to other information being gathered, or even to some other site being listed. But for us it's always "we received some information, we made whatever use of it seemed most helpful to our users."

(2) "The submittal process works perfectly." When people are involved on both ends, I can't imagine believing that, even if someone told me so on a stack of Bibles, and even if I didn't know better of my own experience, which I do.

Based on my own experience (including several systematic re-checks of fairly random sets of submittals) I think the error rate is something like a fraction of 1% for inappropriate site rejects based on submittals, and several percent for inappropriate site listings. I have never kept those estimates secret.

It would be fair to say that (1) the submittal process works better than anything professional submitters have ever suggested, possibly could have (which is extremely faint praise); (2) the submittal process could not be improved and would certainly be harmed by giving additional weight to professional submitters (which says more about the depravity of many professional submitters than about the quality of the editors' work), (3) the ODP would be harmed, and would not be improved, by giving more priority to the submittal process, (4) we have never seen SYSTEMIC problems with the submittal process (which is what a sane person would need to see, before thinking that any procedural change is needed), (5) we have never seen problems with the submittal process significant enough that systemic re-review of rejected sites wouldn't be a major waste of time, compared to anything else the editor could have been doing, (6) even in its imperfections, even under the spam, the site submittal process still "works" (for the only purpose that it was ever intended to fulfill): that is, it occasionally provides some editors with enough useful information that they think it's worthwhile to keep it.

Sometimes, people who are think they know everything translate "you think your way is better than my way" into "you think your way is perfect." Which could only be logical if THEY were perfect. Which very few people are, in my experience. So that's basically never a correct translation. If an editor thinks the ODP as it now is, is better than a suggestion, it's usually because most of the suggested procedural changes are so utterly brain-damaged and misguided -- not because the ODP is perfect, but because just because some spammer think he's Napoleon doesn't make him emperor of his own asylum, much less the sane part of the world.

So, charitably assuming the guy isn't lying for the fun of it, he knows so little about France that one wonders why even the other asylum inmates think he's Napoleon.
 

Nic-SR

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Nov 24, 2006
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Reply from SR

Hey all,

I’m the editor of the Site-Reference newsletter. I want to point out that SR doesn't necessarily support the beliefs or opinions reflected by the authors of the articles we publish

We aim to inform our audience from different angles. People must understand different points of view, do their homework and only then form educated decisions/opinions.

The article in question was published because I believed it would be an interesting account of one person’s beliefs. If anyone from DMOZ or elsewhere wishes to send in a quality article with different suggestions (points of view) related to this topic, SR would gladly review/publish it. Simply PM me.

In my opinion DMOZ is a valuable site and I respect what is being accomplished here. However I also realize the system isn’t perfect. For example I have the same site listed twice in it’s category on DMOZ. The site in question is old and hardly functional anymore. When I tried to submit a newer similar site, with far better content it was rejected (or so I assume since I never heard back from DMOZ).

Anyways like I said I like what you’re doing here so keep up the good work!

Nic
 

Eric-the-Bun

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Hi Nic

Thanks for your input.

When DMOZ is up and running could you make an update listing request on the bad listing(s) so we can remove it? It would be appreciated. It sounds as if that category needs a bit of TLC :) I doubt if your site was rejected, it is more likely that no one has reviewed it yet.

regards
 

Nic-SR

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Nov 24, 2006
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Be gald to Eric

And as previously mentioned, if you or anyone from DMOZ wishes to submit an article outlining the developments, news, future direction, etc of DMOZ that could be very beneficial for us all. I think part of the problem stemming from negative views is due to a lack of clear understanding.

I don’t frequent forums often except for Site-Reference’s, so if you ever want to discuss anything feel free to send me a PM there anytime (screen-name: Nic).

Wish you a great weekend

Nic
 

john_a

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Nov 27, 2006
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Hello everyone,
Nic said
If anyone from DMOZ or elsewhere wishes to send in a quality article with different suggestions (points of view) related to this topic, SR would gladly review/publish it.
I am an SR member (johna) and can confirm that SR is open to other points of view - see my reply to the previous DMOZ topic on SR dated September 25:
Best regards,
John
 

crowbar

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Very interesting bunch of posts, John, it makes me extremely grateful that our metas don't approve every request to become an editor, :D .

As just a simple, ordinary editor, I can assure you that not one of those posters, including yourself, have the slightest clue about what the editing community of the ODP is really like, or what it is we really do, and there's really no point in my wasting my time telling you. :)

Best regards
 
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