Site wiped out

you could wonder how an upstanding site that was listed in the ODP and GOOGLE for years was removed from both in the same 24-48 hour period

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If you are referring to the Google directory, that is updated from the ODP at verying intervals (i.e. vaguely monthly or whenever Google feels like it). This means that changes made to the ODP may not be reflected in the Google directory straight away or even for months, however obviously sometimes its is quicker. So the answer is that the chance of that situation occurring is quite reasonable (1 in 30ish? excluding sod's law).

If you are referring to SERPs (i.e. sites plummeting in the rankings), Google notices the addition and removal of links fairly quickly and acts on them. If I add or remove a link on my website, it will have an effect within a few days. Here the cause and effect would be automatic by Google noticing that the links had gone and adjusting accordingly, though it would hardly have a major effect unless no one else was linking to the sites.

[Whenever Google does update its directory from the ODP, all changes made in the ODP in the previous 24-48 hours will be included. Saying that a change is made in Google within 24-48 hours of a particular change in the ODP wrongly implies a direct link between the two events.].

Whenever Google does update its directory from the ODP, all changes made in the ODP in the previous 24-48 hours will be included.

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Not exactly. Google downloads a copy of the latest RDF dump from the ODP. The RDF dump takes several days to compile from the live ODP. Then Google takes a while to upload the new version to the Google Directory. So the Google Directory is never bang up to date.

In case you're not aware of this, when you search for sites on dmoz.org, make sure that you only search by the domain name, not the URL. Use mydomain.com instead of http://www.mydomain.com or www.mydomain.com. You probably know this already, or know the specific categories that the sites were listed in, but in case you were just doing a general search I thought I would mention it just in case the sites are actually still listed and you just couldn't find them.

Eric-the-Bun

I am referring to SERP penalization. This isnt because a loss or PR or backlinks. I have thousands of back links. This isnt just a drop, it is a clear cut Google penalty.

donaldb

I went to the specific categories and the listings were gone.

This isnt just a drop, it is a clear cut Google penalty.

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Are you banned from Google?

Apparantly there is a difference between dropping out of the SERPS due to other factors in the Google algorithm (which might include a penalization factor such as the infamous 'sandbox') and actually being banned?

Its a penalty but it may be that the domain just hasnt dropped yet. I dont even rank for my own domain name. Its not like my site dropped, its like it doesnt appear.

I have seen on other forums the same situation. When Google last updated its algorithm a number of people complained about the same thing. Google's algorithms and its effects are a mystery unto themselves.

DMOZ maintains no communication with Google. The reasons that DMOZ removes listings are not exactly the same as Google - for example DMOZ ignores the fact that a site may have hidden text whilst Google ignores the 'usefulness' of the content.

You mentioned that many of your sites had had a listing for many years and here a known 'problem' is that DMOZ has improved it's standards. This means that sites and descrptions that were regarded as good enough then may not be good enough today, particularly if the content has changed. It is possible that someone spotted this and put in an abuse report as would be normal. However DMOZ does not care about the motivations of an abuse report only about the content of the directory.

I think Google has the same sort of mechanism (i.e. public report) but haven't a clue how it works. It is possible that someone made one to Google but the Google penalty for individual sites is getting 'banned'. I don't see Google (a commercial firm) adjusting it's algorithms to penalise specific individual sites on an ad hoc basis.

As you are aware, we have to avoid discussing the specific issues behind why a site is not listed or has been removed in this forum otherwise we would have to justify each and every decision. Even speculation is difficult since we can throw up dozens of reasons without being sure that they apply, so we end up seeming evasive.

We do care very much if an editor is involved or if we are being manipulated in some way. Hence I would strongly recommend that, if you have already not done so, you file an abuse report as we would appreciate it. It may merely be a case of human error.

I'm afraid at the end of the day the only mechanism we have of showing you that the ODP as a body does strive to maintain standards, is to urge you to make use of the abuse system so we can investigate it properly. Like Google, we have to maintain silence on the results so as not to reveal our internal workings.

Eric-the-Bun said:

I have seen on other forums the same situation. When Google last updated its algorithm a number of people complained about the same thing. Google's algorithms and its effects are a mystery unto themselves.

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Its not a mystery. My site was 100% no doubt about it penalized.

Eric-the-Bun said:

You mentioned that many of your sites had had a listing for many years and here a known 'problem' is that DMOZ has improved it's standards. This means that sites and descrptions that were regarded as good enough then may not be good enough today, particularly if the content has changed. It is possible that someone spotted this and put in an abuse report as would be normal. However DMOZ does not care about the motivations of an abuse report only about the content of the directory.

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There were too many deep links that were different content and free hosting users for this to be the case. Just because geocities.com is no longer a good link, doesnt mean all the sites hosted there are no longer good. (just an example)


Thanks for the time and input everyone...except Hutch

Frustrated

I have been reading guidelines. http://dmoz.org/guidelines/include.html#notinclude

I have participated in the forums for a long time. I have read and read and read. I have learned everything I think I can learn about the ODP.

I believe my site should be listed, yet it never is. It once was listed, but no more. After reading the guidelines at least 5 times. The only thing I can think may be wrong is that the editor thinks my site isnt a totally unique site with 100% unique content (I can assure you that it is). Because of the spamminess of my category, I think the editor might think my site is one of those affiliate sites. But at the same time reading about the editor of this category and her posts on this forum I am pretty sure she is way to savvy to think my site is anything but what it is.

When this happens what can you do? I know the editor is up to date, and I know the editor is savvy in the category, yet my site goes unlisted.

Thank you for any advice in advance.

Please DON'T start new threads on old subjects. It's far easier for our readers to follow a conversation if it takes place in a single thread.

I know the editor is up to date, ... yet my site goes unlisted.

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Unless an editor has told you this (which may be a breach of ODP confidentiality) I don't see how you could know whether or not the category is 'up to date' (by which you presumably mean that there are no pending public suggestions to review).

If this is the case, then I guess your site must have been denied for failing to meet our listing criteria. Either it was a correct decision, down to human error, or (fairly unlikely) deliberate abuse.

However, if you're just looking at the date at the bottom of the dmoz.org page, that just indicates the last time some editorial action was taken, and not that all suggestions have been reviewed. I would suggest it is far more likely that your site is still waiting to be reviewed ...

(You might also want to note that there is no 'the editor' for any category. There are only editors who have permission to edit in that category. This includes any editors listed at the bottom of the page, any editors listed in parent / ancestor categorues, and about 200 odd editors who have permission to edit anywhere in the directory.)

I can say that I know becuase not only have I seen edits, but there was a question about a site in my category in which the listed editor responded to and changes were made right in this forum.

There's a difference between "some edits" having been made, and "all possible edits" having been made. A question about an inappropriately listed site is often handled very quickly -- we invite those questions here, and have a special thread for them. Handling them is often given a high priority -- higher than looking for more sites for a category.

If fixing bad listings had the LOWEST priority, then you could assume what you did -- that is, if the bad listing is fixed, everything else that could conceivably been done has been done. But (1) there isn't a fixed priority, and (2) if there were, fixing bad edits often gets the HIGHEST priority. So you really do not know anything about what remains to be done. You only know that something else has been done in the same neighborhood.

I see this editors time spent in these forums, and the way this category is handled and it is up to date. I would bet 1k in cash that she rarely ever lets things go for more than a week.

We are talking about a year, a year in which I have seen new sites added, bad sites removed, and wrong descriptions fixed.

I know the editor is up to date, ... yet my site goes unlisted.

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Perhaps it's unlistable. Perhaps it's listable but hasn't yet been reviewed. Speculating about the activity level of the listed editor is pointless in either case.

In any event, this thread (which really amounts to a very long discussion about a specific site) has long since run past it best by date so I'm going to go ahead and close it. Please don't open another thread to resume discussion of your site. Thanks.