Why can't I have feedback on my rejected site?
- Thread starter hutcheson
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longcall911
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Actually, yes I do. Rather, I should say 'I did' but not much anymore. Two sigs jumped out at me early on, bobrat’s and spectregunner’s. I first visited the RZ about 3 months ago to find out why it had been a whole 3 weeks and my site was not yet listed.donaldb said:
After poking around a bit, reading posts, and noticing the above 2 signatures, I started to get the picture. I do agree that your comparison to banner ads is valid. My eyes avoid them to the same extent I avoid looking directly into the sun. But for whatever reason, maybe the colors, I noticed these.
I came across an article not long ago, (although I can’t locate it now) that as I recall seemed to have been published by a neutral third party. It stated that research had shown that of those people viewing search engine results pages, 40% looked at organic listings only, and that 60% looked at sponsored listings at the top, side, and bottom of the page. (The suggestion was that you need to be both places or risk losing a major segment.)
If true, that might carry over to signatures as well although who knows how the percentages might change. I would think that the new visitor would be far more apt to notice than the regular visitor, or another editor. But then again, it’s the new visitor that needs to know.
longcall911
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How do you really know? Is it possible that others noticed and said nothing?bobrat said:One person noticed.
I'm not sure how one could ever effectively measure the results. Maybe a concerted effort by all editors to 'advertise' the 3 or 4 key points that you want to get out there would prove beneficial over the long run. Even so, it would be difficult to draw effectiveness conclusions with any degree of confidence.
What I can say is that *I* noticed your signature. It told me a little bit about you. I learned that I should take your sarcasm lightly. And, it told me I should be patient. That probably saved some editor from answering one more tired question. And I don't think I'm any special case. In fact, I think I'm quite typical of the dopey newbie, fumbling around, trying to figure out the system.
foetusized
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Actually, Borders started redirecting traffic from http://borders.com/ to Amazon. They, like some other "Amazon Partners" including Virgin Megastore and CDNow.com, have been de-listed. Borders' other site http://www.bordersstores.com/ remains listed. Some of us notice such things, and don't like keeping such "ununique content" listed in the ODP -- Foejtbell said:
longcall911
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Interesting that it's an affiliate forum. Reading the posts, you can see that they have no clue that affiliate sites will wait forever.bobrat][Getting off topic said:
Cry babies, pay or educate yourself
How can anyone criticize a free service run by volunteers?
You have three choices:
1) Advertise, pay per click, and get first page listing within 24 hours.
2) Pay a company that employees people 40 hours a week to redo your
site to make it acceptable.
3) For ODP listing, educate yourself. The knowledge is available here.
I listed my site on the internet when the internet was a baby. First page
listing was easy. There were only 12 sites in my category. Today there
are 50,000 to 100,000 in my category. I still have first page listing. Yes,
even on "goo". Opps, I apologize, I almost said a word, that in my
opinion should never be mentioned in this forum.
I hate dull cliches, but this one seems to apply "Yours is not to question
why, yours is but to do or die". The key word is "DO".
My application for editor was rejected two years ago. It was a wise
decision. My tolerance level is way to low for this volunteer job.
I thank you ODP, not for listing my site, but for forcing me to educate
myself in an area that is so important to my business.
Kelkid
How can anyone criticize a free service run by volunteers?
You have three choices:
1) Advertise, pay per click, and get first page listing within 24 hours.
2) Pay a company that employees people 40 hours a week to redo your
site to make it acceptable.
3) For ODP listing, educate yourself. The knowledge is available here.
I listed my site on the internet when the internet was a baby. First page
listing was easy. There were only 12 sites in my category. Today there
are 50,000 to 100,000 in my category. I still have first page listing. Yes,
even on "goo". Opps, I apologize, I almost said a word, that in my
opinion should never be mentioned in this forum.
I hate dull cliches, but this one seems to apply "Yours is not to question
why, yours is but to do or die". The key word is "DO".
My application for editor was rejected two years ago. It was a wise
decision. My tolerance level is way to low for this volunteer job.
I thank you ODP, not for listing my site, but for forcing me to educate
myself in an area that is so important to my business.
Kelkid
kelkid said:
Yes, even though I felt our site had unique content, ODP helped me realize that I had over 15 Years of personal experience in my field that was not being put to use on our site. It has made a difference to our customers, so kudos to ODP.
I noticed that with all the emphasis on unique content in this forum, I failed to see the same fervor when reading the submission guidelines. Did I miss something? It somewhat alludes to it but not so obvious to the newbie like me. You would want to hit a person like me upside the head pretty good with “Please examine the site you are suggesting to be sure it has plenty of UNIQUE CONTENT before submitting to this directory!!!!!” or something like that.
The bold and red lettering also got more of my attention.
The bold and red lettering also got more of my attention.
wrathchild said:
But in the case of the book manuscript and the college application you are usually sent an acceptance or a rejection letter.
I'm interested in hearing some editors' opinions on building an automated system into dmoz that sends an email to the submitter saying either "Your site was accepted and is now visible in category ....." or "Your site was rejected." No need to write a personalized message or give a reason. I think a lot of users would just be happy to be able to stop guessing and know that if they haven't yet received an email one way or the other, then their site is still waiting for review.
spectregunner
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I'd rather see a system that forces someone to reply to an e-mail before any given submission is considered. With some nasty non-machine-readable cut-and paste to make life miserable for the spammers.
jgwright
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- Sep 1, 2004
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I agree. But above all I'd rather have the status quo. Let's not attach too much importance to submissions. It's just an anonymous "hey here's a site which you might not have considered yet". A site is not accepted or rejected and the submitter is not necessarily the webmaster.spectregunner said:
All I know is I now have a very large and very heavily trafficed site that was submitted 17 months ago that is still not in the database, has never been reviewed by a dmoz editor, and, to be honest, I feel very insulted. When I look at the 14 other sites that are listed in my catagory, none of them come close to what I have to offer, including the three stared sites that an editor has marked. And of those 14, 2 are 404's and 6 haven't been updated for years. I've updated my site 106 times this year.
And, no, it's not a commerical site. It's a fan site for a television show.
And, yes, I've tried to become an editor and been turned down three times this year. No feedback given either on that except for a form letter that is rather lacking on specifics. Of course I could always submit my application again but since I don't know where I'm lacking, I doubt it would get accepted and it would probably be a waste of my time. (And, for the record, I took the time and crafted applications that I thought were well written, linked sites that were not my own, and tried to explain that I was a person who wanted to take the time and try to make DMOZ the best that I could make it.)
Am I ever going to get my site submitted? Doubt it. Am I every going to get feedback? Doubt it. Have I pretty much given up on DMOZ? Pretty much.
Do I think DMOZ is a good idea? Yes. Is it working? Not in the current form.
Do I think feedback needs to be given? For the real sites that are submitted, yes. For the editors, let me ask you this question. How would you feel if you suggested a site to DMOZ, sat waiting for something to happen for 17 months, and finally be told "Oh, we passed on it and can't tell you why."? Can you honestly tell me that you would feel happy about the methods used in the review process? Can you honestly tell me this is acceptable?
Another thing to consider is manners and the lack of respect DMOZ editors appear to have towards those who take the time to submit sites. While I understand a large number of the suggestions that you folks receive are probably spams or mirrors or sites that shouldn't be in the database to begin with, how about those submitters who have taken the time to submit true sites and they are just left in the air?
Let's use this example. I'm standing in line at the deli counter of the only supermarket in my home town. (I write "only" supermarket because DMOZ portrays itself as the only human edited directory on the net.) I've placed my order with the clerk a while back and now stand there watching him or her go and help all the other customers. After a bit, the clerk finally hands me an empty bag or tells me "Oh, I don't want to finish your order" without any reason. That's how I feel DMOZ acts sometimes from reading these forums and from my own personal experience.
As well, I sit on a small database of about 300 links to other sites (Granted some of them haven't been updated in years but they're still there) ranging on a number of topics. I can't get one site placed into the database after 17 months. What makes you think I'm going to take the time to submit any more?
Well, that's my opinion. I just checked and my one site is still not in there. I'm really past worrying about it. I guess I could always go to Netscape and let my opinion be heard there but I doubt anything would come of it. (I could drop names and whatnot but it wouldn't be worth it and would probably cheapen what I have to say.)
-drmike
edit: One final note. JGWright, you mention "Let's not attach too much importance to submissions." Um, I have to say that that's a very poor opinion to state publicly and I think you may want to think again about it. If you didn't have submissions, you would have a completely empty database here as you wouldn't have any sites listed. Remember, each one of the sites listed in DMOZ had to have been submitted by someone.
And, no, it's not a commerical site. It's a fan site for a television show.
And, yes, I've tried to become an editor and been turned down three times this year. No feedback given either on that except for a form letter that is rather lacking on specifics. Of course I could always submit my application again but since I don't know where I'm lacking, I doubt it would get accepted and it would probably be a waste of my time. (And, for the record, I took the time and crafted applications that I thought were well written, linked sites that were not my own, and tried to explain that I was a person who wanted to take the time and try to make DMOZ the best that I could make it.)
Am I ever going to get my site submitted? Doubt it. Am I every going to get feedback? Doubt it. Have I pretty much given up on DMOZ? Pretty much.
Do I think DMOZ is a good idea? Yes. Is it working? Not in the current form.
Do I think feedback needs to be given? For the real sites that are submitted, yes. For the editors, let me ask you this question. How would you feel if you suggested a site to DMOZ, sat waiting for something to happen for 17 months, and finally be told "Oh, we passed on it and can't tell you why."? Can you honestly tell me that you would feel happy about the methods used in the review process? Can you honestly tell me this is acceptable?
Another thing to consider is manners and the lack of respect DMOZ editors appear to have towards those who take the time to submit sites. While I understand a large number of the suggestions that you folks receive are probably spams or mirrors or sites that shouldn't be in the database to begin with, how about those submitters who have taken the time to submit true sites and they are just left in the air?
Let's use this example. I'm standing in line at the deli counter of the only supermarket in my home town. (I write "only" supermarket because DMOZ portrays itself as the only human edited directory on the net.) I've placed my order with the clerk a while back and now stand there watching him or her go and help all the other customers. After a bit, the clerk finally hands me an empty bag or tells me "Oh, I don't want to finish your order" without any reason. That's how I feel DMOZ acts sometimes from reading these forums and from my own personal experience.
As well, I sit on a small database of about 300 links to other sites (Granted some of them haven't been updated in years but they're still there) ranging on a number of topics. I can't get one site placed into the database after 17 months. What makes you think I'm going to take the time to submit any more?
Well, that's my opinion. I just checked and my one site is still not in there. I'm really past worrying about it. I guess I could always go to Netscape and let my opinion be heard there but I doubt anything would come of it. (I could drop names and whatnot but it wouldn't be worth it and would probably cheapen what I have to say.)
-drmike
edit: One final note. JGWright, you mention "Let's not attach too much importance to submissions." Um, I have to say that that's a very poor opinion to state publicly and I think you may want to think again about it. If you didn't have submissions, you would have a completely empty database here as you wouldn't have any sites listed. Remember, each one of the sites listed in DMOZ had to have been submitted by someone.
dogbows
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drmike said:
Sorry, but nothing could be farther from the truth. A good 95% of all the sites that I have personally added to the directory were sites not submitted by anyone. It is only one of many ways that editors use to find and list sites. There are many editors that would just as soon that the ability for sites to be submitted were turned off completely.
However, other editors will have different percentages depending on where they edit. I just happen to edit in an area of the directory where there are practically no submissions. If I depended on submissions, I would be dead in the water.
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- Oct 8, 2002
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Sorry, but this is totaly untrue.
I guess from the sites I have added to DMOZ only 50% have been submitted by someone. The other sites I have found myself in other ways. But I also know that to list these suggested sites I also had to delete at least the same amount of unlistable sites (spam, already listed, duplicate submissions) and also had to move a large amount to the right category.
Is there some way for us to be able to list suggested sites much faster. Yes, confince all your fellow webmasters to follow our rules about which sites we will list and which we won't and the rule of 'single best catagory'.
For your own site: did you already ask for a status?
I don't think much of your straw man -- not good enough for making all the brickbats you're throwing.
All those submitters out there sending us sites that (by our guidelines) we don't want -- what have they done (other than waste our time) to deserve us wasting our time telling them how they can cleverly waste more of our time next time they redisguise and resubmit their unpetrified coproliths? And if we did give feedback, what can we tell an affiliate doorway spammer that he doesn't already know about where he got his content and how non-unique it is?
And, if someone is actively trying to collect content, the fact that they don't yet have enough content is really more information than they need. After all, they're either doing what they can do about it, or they aren't. In neither case is any word from us needed.
The number of actual websites that (if an ODP editor spent a day of investigation) could actually receive feedback is really miniscule--a tiny fraction of 1% of total submittals. And, frankly, editors don't have the time or inclination to spend that day of investigation determining whether the website actually is could be unique, despite its total apparent lack of uniqueness. We could review several hundred sites (and list dozens of them) in the same time.
Anyone who sees a business opportunity in this niche which the ODP is neither equipped nor minded to serve, you are welcome to take it. You can be sure editors won't move to compete with you -- we have a different mission.
All those submitters out there sending us sites that (by our guidelines) we don't want -- what have they done (other than waste our time) to deserve us wasting our time telling them how they can cleverly waste more of our time next time they redisguise and resubmit their unpetrified coproliths? And if we did give feedback, what can we tell an affiliate doorway spammer that he doesn't already know about where he got his content and how non-unique it is?
And, if someone is actively trying to collect content, the fact that they don't yet have enough content is really more information than they need. After all, they're either doing what they can do about it, or they aren't. In neither case is any word from us needed.
The number of actual websites that (if an ODP editor spent a day of investigation) could actually receive feedback is really miniscule--a tiny fraction of 1% of total submittals. And, frankly, editors don't have the time or inclination to spend that day of investigation determining whether the website actually is could be unique, despite its total apparent lack of uniqueness. We could review several hundred sites (and list dozens of them) in the same time.
Anyone who sees a business opportunity in this niche which the ODP is neither equipped nor minded to serve, you are welcome to take it. You can be sure editors won't move to compete with you -- we have a different mission.